A new look at one of the North Country's Coldest Cases
wow well, we can't wait to hear your official theories, or suspects. But most of all i can't wait for your book!!
This is ABSOLUTELY incorrect. There was a box of wine found in the car and a container with the smell of alcohol found near the car with red liquid splashed around the inside of the car. I think you are making a leap in your thoughts from "all accounted for", to, "they were left behind". They were all accounted for, and some of it at least, was located in the car. Please check the police documents. The police report EXPLICITLY states "In plain sight behind the drivers seat I could see a box of Franzia wine. I could also see red liquid on the drivers side door and ceiling of the car".All the alcohol might have been accounted for, it doesn't mean that some of it wasn't with Maura.Shoddy work.Bill
And this was not a "little thing". It has significant implications as to her motivation and state of mind at the scene of the crash.Bill
You are the unbiased investigator this case has needed from the beginning. Thank you! We were fed lie upon lie for 7+ years. Why? I'll bet you find out! Please post here as often as you can.
Bill, I don't understand your point. Can you be more clear? I'm saying all the booze was left in the car, where it was later found and catalogued by police. Some reports stated that the vodka and baileys were missing, meaning she took it with her to wherever she disappeared.
I think what he means is that all the liquor that she bought at the store was in the car, not that she hadn't drank any.
I am also very confused by Bill's comment....
Sorry by "he" I meant Mr Renner. "I think what he means is that all the liquor that she bought at the store was in the car, not that she hadn't drank any."
When it was catalogued, did they list the percntage of contents if it had been opened?
Yeah, I think Bill misunderstood what James was saying. Of course, the natural reaction to seeing something you disagree with (mistakenly) is to fly off the handle and accuse the writer of shoddy journalism instead of, you know, asking a clarifying question.
I made a mistake in reading this. I thought that you were saying the alcohol was ALL left behind at the dorm. Sorry for the mistake on my part.Was her backpack missing?Bill
As someone who has been reading about this case since shortly after it happened, and has seen the repeated bad and just downright incorrect information that has been attempted to be passed off as immutable truth, by amateur and supposed professionals. You'll need to excuse me if I go for the throat when I see what I think is crap. I make no apology for my reaction, I apologize that my reaction was unwarranted because I read it incorrectly.Bill
Mr. Renner. Now I need to ask a question. Someone else posted on websleuths what I thought that I had read. Did you change the phrase "Maura left it all behind." to "Maura left it all behind in the car."?Because when I read the writing I got the distinct impression that you were saying that she left all the alcohol at the dorm. Which was patently incorrect. Did I read it incorrectly or did you change it from what was originally written?Bill
Bill, If your reactions tend toward "going for the throat", it would perhaps be mindful of you to take a minute to be sure you have read something correctly before you react. Just a helpful tip.
BIll, yes, after your comment I realized I needed to be more clear.
I'm a journalist who worked on this story and was told by a lead investigator that some of the liquor was missing. It was assumed that Maura took it with her after the accident.
I sat in a room with a police officer who read the report on his computer.
If you can find evidence to the contrary, please let me know.
How much of it was gone (as in drunk), if any?
To the journalist posting above, yes, this is what was put out to the public. Bottles were assumed to be with her as they weren't in the car. Lots of talk as to how it was even KNOWN that alcoholic bottles were there in the first place. They were missing? Who knew they were there? This is an interesting twist. Why would the thought be put out there for people to believe that the alcohol was so precious to Maura that in her hurry she would take the time to put in her backpack?
To Anonymous (July 31 @ 8:49pm), If I recall correctly, supposedly, there were receipts for the alcohol, which Maura purchased on her way to NH.
i thought they said the bottles were not found in her dorm or her car. maura returned scrubs around sometime that afternoon, did people talk to this partner who shared rides and attended the same clinicals to see if she asked for a liquor store trip? did that girl go with her to nh for the new years 2004? they did say they were investigating a call maura got the day before she left. the family said it was just talk about returning scrubs. what about missing or stolen credit cards? did anybody, a fellow student or students have charges made to their cards in nh or vt in the days after maura vanished? if so what was bought/rented and where.that box of wine was said to be off the list, in other words, not on the receipt.if billy thought she called her own room to see if he had called and left a message while she was away, it's because he knows by the cell phone records and maybe by her message where she says she wants to talk and will call later on. that call was made at 4:30 or so. she was seen leaving campus close to that time.maybe that's why she called him stud in the email she sent earlier in the day, because he was going around acting like one.
she might have bought the liquor before she left to parts unknown, but that doesn't mean it was for her. i think people like the girl she shared rides with to clinicals should be talked with. it could have been a thank you gift. they call ahead to check her dorm after they look in the car and see this receipt and nowhere are the few items listed on that receipt. who's booze really was it?
the last call, the last transaction on mauras cell phone at approx 4:30 was a call placed to her room to check messages on that phone, in her dorm room. NOT that someone had called her cell phone and she was just checking that on her cell server. she was checking her room phone. she called her room phone to get any messages. that's what billy said
Hey Anonymous (July 29, 2011 5:57 AM) or Leomoon80. Have you figured out I didn't read it incorrectly yet? See response (July 31, 2011 7:38 AM)Bill
No kidding Bill...They sorta, "went for the throat" on you there. Hm.Didn't you apologize for your misunderstanding? Yeah, you did.I've learned on here you can attack a victim's father freely without supporting your argument with anything...but heaven forbid you criticize the almighty himself, Jesus Renner.
I see this sort of writing problem happening all the time in online forums (especially Reddit where I have spent far too much time); the writer of a comment assumes that a truncated reference to something very clear in his or her own mind is one that the readers naturally share. The most common error I observe is the sloppy use of pronouns; is "he" the main agent or is "he" the most recent reference to any male? That sort of thing.I think the best takeaway for us all is to realize that this kind of misunderstanding happens frequently, and therefore as a writer, it's good to go out of your way to make sure you are sufficiently explicit (the blogger thus amended his original entry)...and as a reader, it's a good idea to seek clarity before you blast the blogger.
Are these bottles of alcohol kept as evidence in this case? Where are they? Were they given to the family?
James, are you aware of the considerable brouhaha going on at the Websleuths Maura Murray thread over your claim that all the alcohol was accounted for? Are you sure of your facts? Please clarify and comment. What exactly was found in the car and which bottles/boxes had or had not been opened?
Even if the box of wine wasn't on the first liquor store receipt, she took almost all her $$ in cash from the ATM. Maybe the first store didn't have the kind she liked, so she stopped somewhere along the way in NH. There isn't alcohol tax there anyway. No one's able to account for her whereabouts that night until the crash, and then she disappeared shortly after that. She could have stopped 10 times along the route and no one would know.
Something I never understood about this case, if Maura left the majority of her belongings in her car, but its assumed she took her wallet or credit cards, cell phone..then why would she need a backpack to carry those few, light objects? Also, how do people even know she had a backpack with her? I keep reading 'a black backpack' everywhere... i don't understand.. how people assume she had a black backpack in the first place. Has it been documented somewhere that someone had seen her, for sure, with a black backpack?
if Maura WAS to take the booze with her, not leave it in the car or not have had dropped it off elsewhere after - it would be odd that the backpack wasn't eventually found, containing the booze. Bottles of alcohol are really heavy...and I doubt she'd get far on foot without dropping the bag.
that's if she was carrying those bottles by herself would she drop them. According to reports there was supposedly a man smoking a cigarette in the car. Smoking a cigarette is kind of a distinct act, tough to mistake for anything else. I'd imagine Maura being a runner wasn't a smoker. She had 2 sets of directions with her. one to Burlington, Vermont, one to Stowe, Vermont. If one was traveling from Amherst to Bartlett, New Hampshire they probably don't take route 112. However if someone is traveling from Stowe or Burlington, VT to Bartlet, 112 can certainly be used. Especially if there's someone in the car, perhaps someone familiar with the area that may know a few shortcuts and roads easier to travel in the snow. I believe she was not alone in this car, but with a romantic interest. Someone she either met on a dating site or a previous discrete relationship. Someone she would know better not to call with her own cellphone. it would be interesting to know if she was on any dating sites. Even with a hidden profile. There may have even been a 3rd person in the car as well, or intentions of picking up another person. I believe she had 2 sets of directions with her. One being directions to a person she was to pick up, another possible being a 2nd person she was picking up, and the final destination was to be at either a person's house, or rental condo of some kind for the weekend. I believe she made it to that destination, but had help doing so.
con'tThis could have been an arranged sexual encounter for the weekend. I don't want to make any accusations of Maura. However, in general, people tend to keep their sexual life private, especially girls. You won't hear a girl on a Monday morning say 'yeah, I was in an orgy this Saturday, what did you do this weekend?". Or this could have just been a weekend getaway to meet a few new people. A long distance relationship is hard to stay loyal to, especially a pretty 21 year old girl in her college years. Even if she loved her current boyfriend, she maybe just needed an adventure and escape from life for a few days. It's a little morbid to use a death in the family as an excuse and I view it as bad karma, but to her train of thought it may have been the best excuse not to be questioned upon her return.
I am also curious as to which, if any, were opened and if so, how much was missing. I too have heard about the "red" colored drink spilled in the car and snow..?
If all the alcohol was left behind in the car, doesn't that work against the tandem scenario? I mean, if Maura was travelling in tandem with someone she knew (be it as part of a plan to stay some days off in the North, or be it a runaway), it can be concluded that the alcohol was bought on purpose as part of that plan. If the other driver was the one who picked up her after the accident to continue to wherever they were going, makes sense to leave the just bought drinks in Maura's car?Please excuse my poor english.
Was literally just thinking of this. It doesn't make much sense if she purchases the alcohol for her and someone else (the tandem driver) for her to leave the booze behind in her car. Even if she was shaken up from the accident, she more than likely would have brought the alcohol with her; not just to have some drinks with at a later venue, but also to make it look like she had not been drinking and driving (even though there was alcohol that had spilled in her car).
But then again, why would she have called that one condo/hotel asking for two rooms? Ugh! So much controversy here.