Tuesday, February 7, 2012

Does Maura's cousin know "true" story of disappearance?

Remember Barb and Patricia Curran? It was their high school pictures I discovered in an adult magazine outside Fred Murray's house in Weymouth. Barb (McDougall) and Patti (Davidson) are Maura's cousins and they spoke to Nancy Grace about the disappearance in 2006. They both still live in the Weymouth area and maintain contact with Helena Dwyer who runs the Maura Murray website and the Maura Murray Facebook page.

After I posted the report about the tip that links Maura to Toronto, a reader sent me an email which included, as an attachment, a report given to Lt. Scarinza of the NH State Police in 2009. The report was written by a CPA named James Leone. Leone knows computers. He understands how to track an IP address. He was contacted by the moderator of a forum devoted to finding what happened to Maura Murray. Someone had posted the supposed "true" story of what happened to Maura. Here's the post:

Maura Murray is NOT a Missing Person

Maura Murray has the right as every independent adult does to leave with her new boyfriend and start a new life. Maura is living a content and satisfying life in the Province of Quebec.

Maura's father Fred Murray never quite forgave her for being asked to leave West Point. It was his personal bragging point that he had two daughters at West Point. Maura's dismissal damaged Fred's ego and he never completely forgave her.

Maura's being asked to leave West Point and all the ensuing criticism by her father was the beginning of a certain line of thought for Maura, culminating in her leaving on Feb 9, 2004 to start a new life unencumbered by the constant criticism of her father. Maura's relationship with William Rausch was near its end. Ac- cording to Maura's sister Kathleen, they were having 'serious problems.' Maura had met someone new, who unlike William Rausch had no West Point connections and therefore was not a constant reminder to her of her failure at West Point.

On the night of February 5 2004 Maura took a break from her job at the security desk at a UMass dormitory to go and briefly get coffee and some food.

Sometime between 12 MN and 1 AM Maura driving her Saturn struck and critically injured the UMass student Petrit Vasi leav- ing him for dead.

Around 1 AM - 1:20 AM Feb 6 Maura had a complete emotional breakdown brought on by this hit and run accident. Maura's breakdown was witnessed by a student who reported this to Maura's supervisor, who then came and saw that Maura needed physical help to get back to her dormitory. The supervisor then physically helped Maura back to her dorm and recommended counseling.

Between 2 and 3 AM on the morning of Sunday Feb 8 Maura had a second motor vehicle accident wrecking her father's new car.

Fred Murray's new car was towed around 3 AM to his Hadley motel room. Maura arrived at Fred's motel at the same time as a passenger in the tow truck. Fred was not happy with Maura to put it mildly. What happened in this motel room we'll never know but I do know for a fact that there was some physical violence on the part of Fred Murray. Fred Murray has a history of domestic violence. The next day Maura left for good.

Maura needed to disguise the evidence of the Petrit Vasi hit and run by staging another accident for the purpose of covering up the damage to her car from the Vasi hit and run. She and her new boyfriend travelled in tandem to Route 112 in NH (He was already in Southern NH). The accident was staged, she left her Saturn, walked down the road to where her boyfriend was waiting for her in his car. She disappeared, her only wish is that she be left alone to live her life in peace. She is happy and contented and just wants to be left alone.�


A frequent commenter who called themselves "Observer" responded to this post with:

This is very interesting, it somehow has the ring of truth to it. This is common knowledge in certain circles of people who are close to the family.


The moderator wanted to know who "Observer" was. So she contacted Leone.

Using the IP tag that accompanied the "Observer" messages, Leone traced the poster to a specific server in the area of Taunton, Mass. They figured if "Observer" was posting in this Geocities forum, they were likely posting in other forums related to Maura's disappearance. A quick check of the Franconia, NH Topix forums found a long conversation about the mystery. Three people were posting on Topix from Taunton, Mass, too. But one commented much more than the other two. On Topix, this poster went by the handle "Citigirl."

From Leone's report:

I have been told that second hand the following: "Citigirl" is Patti Davidson (one of Maura Murray's cousins).


Calls to Patti Davidson have not been returned.

It's worth noting the email address used by "Observer". It was objectiveobserver2009@torontomail.com

117 comments:

  1. Wow! Might we be nearing the end of this mystery?!

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  2. Now that I've read this post a few times, I'm wondering: Why didn't the moderator of the site ask Leone to track down the original commenter? The one who claimed to know the whole story? (Also, I suppose we can't be absolutely positive "Observer" is Citigirl/Patti, but the dots certainly do connect.)

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  3. Yikes, I seem to be having a conversation with myself, here. Forgive the multiple posts. But the more I mull the story outlined by the original commenter above, the more it seems plausible, EXCEPT ... if she indeed had found a new boyfriend and was driving behind him that night on her way to a new start, why do no records exist of her communication with this person?
    And, finally (I promise), I wonder, say this story is pretty much accurate - including the part about the first (of three in practically as many days!) accident that critically injured Vasi. Maura is not only a missing person, she's essentially also a fugitive.

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    1. For the same reason her phone was left in the car. (For the same reason that woman from PA with a similar case also left her phone in the car). They had a new phone and/or meant to leave the old one behind. Also, ring of truth ... oh for sure. It is funny how elements of this have occurred to me (like staging and that Vasi was too coincidental to dismiss) and I want to shout "I knew it I knew it." But at various times I have believed I have believed 50 different things in my heart about this so regardless I would be feeling. My gosh. This is almost ovehwhelming and it sure as hell has the ring of truth. Fred might know in his gut she ran from him ... no wonder he does not want it written about. I am almost dizzied by this and it REALLY resonates with truth. Not only in what was said, but in the way it was written. There is demeanor in writing, some types more credible than others. The tone is factual, certain and unapologetic. It does not equivocate or hedge as fabricators tend to. James ... I think you hit ... oh my gosh! ~ John Green

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    2. Who's phone was left in the car?? Maura's phone was never found. You are way off.

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    3. Misstatement on my part, but still a salient point. Thus I am not way off. The point is, as another poster pointed out, someone aiming to escape her current life and start a new one might well have acquired a second phone. This could be why there are no cell phone communications with him. I cited another case where this happened and inadvertently wrote an incorrect statement that Maura's phone was found in the car. That mistake in isolation is in error, but you may overlooked the larger point. Nice slap though.

      ~ John Green

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    4. Her boyfriend gave her the phone we all know about.

      IF she did have a second boyfriend he could easily have given her a phone too.

      On Disappeared Sharon said something about that she and Billy would be able to see her call logs. She said it strangely like maybe there was history there (or maybe I'm reading way too much into it but bear with me). Maybe there was a number Maura called a little too often and she got caught up. She'd never make that mistake again.

      How far back were her phone records inspected? Was the phone a present from that past Christmas so she only had it for a month and half or was it the prior Christmas? We also know Maura used calling cards. Very hard to trace those.

      She could easily have made calls on the phone she knew would be investigated to make it look like she was trying to go somewhere she knew nobody would question (her old hiking grounds). Then with her other phone and / or calling cards made her real arrangements, whatever those may have been.

      -TL

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    5. Maybe Maura didn't need to communicate with this new boyfriend because he was following her down that road. She may have used a payphone with one of those prepaid phone cards she was given by Sharon. I've always thought that these people, Fred Murray, Sharon Rausch and her "friends" were too controlling of her. I'm not surprised that's she'd want to get away.

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    6. Watch disappeared on i.d. its on season one, the boyfriends parents that everyone knew about would buy her phone calling cards and she bought them too so she made calls that know one knew about there are other ways than using your own phone to get a hold of someone especially when you don't want people to know

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  4. While this story does indeed seem to have a certain ring of truth to it, I find it highly unbelievable that a pre-planned "accident" involving the Saturn would have been staged at the WB curve on Rte 112, in the immediate vicinity of five or six permanent residences.
    Yes, I can see the Saturn being abandoned/accident-staged somewhere further east on Rte 112 in the White Mntns National Forest with barely a house along the road for miles and miles on end.
    But at the WB curve with so many witnesses and homes nearby. No way!

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    1. This is a good point. That area seems strange to stage an accident. Many have speculated that she flew off a tow. Maybe they headed toward a place to stage it and then she flew off the tow. And they figured, well, its done, lets go. Maybe? ~ John Green

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  5. If Maura hit Petrit Vasi with her Saturn, why did she run? Was she given to over-the-top panic reactions to difficult situations? If not--and I don't have that impression of her--and if she wasn't doing anything illegal at the time, it would seem a very stupid thing to do, as well as irresponsible and exceedingly lacking in compassion. Yet I don't have an impression of her as stupid, either. I'm beginning to wonder if Maura, who has so often been presented, by those who knew and loved her, as a veritable candidate for sainthood, may have been, instead, a rather amoral and exceedingly narcissistic young woman.

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    1. If she did hit Vasi, running does fit her MO especially if she'd partaken in any booze during her break or if there was any open or empty containers in the car...
      Becky

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    2. Good point. A later poster described how the breaks were handled at that time, however, and it sounds as though it would have been difficult for Maura to leave for such an extended period of time, at least without expressing a reason why she needed to do so, one that might well have been remembered later on. Might be difficult to drink during a break too, given the chance someone might smell it on ones breath.

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  6. Now this is darn good, way better than my Kansas City theory. It explains motive and why she did what she did. It explains why she probably wanted to keep the car longer to get rid of evidence. It does seem a bit odd because most hit and runs the person usually wants to clean the car of any evidence from the person hitting the car, not the car hitting the person. Most do not want to invite police to take a fresh look at their vehicle. She can take a sledge hammer to the car to create more holes in it without driving to New Hampshire or simply go somewhere and torch it.

    Plus, I never got the feeling she was going to see a man. The email her friend Liz has suggests this. She is supposed to go see Dane Cook. When I first saw the ID program, I for some stupid reason thought she was trying to go get tickets to see a musician. He is not a musician. He is a comedian. Then I realized what her friend was really trying to say: If Maura is so depressed as all these theories have her down as, why did she send us an email before she disappeared stating she was trying to get tickets to see a comedian?

    It does seem a bit odd to hit someone with your car and then go see Dane Cook, but maybe the email came before the hit and run? Do most suicide victims go to see a comedian make jokes before they die?

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    1. What Kansas City theory? I missed that one. I live in KC.

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    2. I wrote about the Kansas City Shuffle theory as one of the last comments in the post "Where could a Murray hide? How about Ireland?". I still think it is funny that everyone thinks they are going to solve this girl's missing person case. In my comment I was poking fun at everyone with a wild elaborate theory of how Maura Murray could have pulled her runaway off. One person liked it, another did not. I was told I have quite an imagination.

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    3. Which Kansas City?

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  7. As Nancy Grace says: BOMBSHELL TONIGHT!!!!!!!

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  8. I, too, find a hard time believing this story. I think it's important to always consider your source. Is this 100% proof that it's Patty Davidson? It seems too 'staged' for me. It sounds like someone who just kept up with the story, and came up with a story on their own. I still do not believe Maura had another boyfriend. I would imagine the stress of having a long distance relationship, would make her just get out of it. Not continue to have a relationship with Billy until the night she disappeared. It's true none of us know what really happened, but this doesn't seem right to me.

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    1. I have no more than instinct upon which to base my contrary view, so I begin by saying, you say it well and could be right.

      But my view is this: people telling truth in writing tend to have a certain demeanor. Fewer adjectives, more declarative statements, more active voice as opposed to passive, more certainty clarity and opposed to hedging. This I have some knowledge of personally, though I don't claim to be an expert. If it is a staged post I would argue, someone put a lot of effort into writing quite credibly.

      But again, I don't know. My intuition simply differs from yours and this resonates very very big for me.

      ~John Green

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    2. I'm sure if she caused injury to a person in a hit and run accident the long arm of the law could get her back from Canada to face charges if the law needed to.

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  9. Again,I wonder if the new boyfriend was the owner of a red truck with Ma. plates?If observers IP was in Taunton how could this person use a toronto email address?This scenerio is worth pursuing.

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    1. "Torontomail" is just a website host. Anybody in the world can pay a fee and have a website address and an email address via that website. Sounds like someone wants to pretend to be in the "know" to lead people into thinking Maura is alive. And... that certain someone wants people to think it's coming from one of Maura's relatives.

      Sounds as if somebody has a "hate-on" for Maura and her relatives. Possibly someone who feels they were maligned during the search and investigative process into Maura's disappearance up in New Hampshire? Or perhaps someone who knows who killed her?

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    2. I have to agree that the e-mail quoted by Mr Renner may well be an attempt to deflect any further interest in pursuing a possible foul play scenario.
      The way the e-mail is composed is very neat and very pat, seemingly connecting all the dots along the way, with one or two minor exceptions. The author behind this piece certainly writes quite well, is obviously well-educated, etc, etc, which makes the story even more compelling.
      Perhaps even too compelling?
      I don´t know for sure, but possibly yes.

      Again, I don´t think that any staged accident was planned to be executed at the WB curve on Rte 112 with quite a few potential witnesses nearby.
      Caveat: Maura´s Saturn might have suffered some kind of trouble, therefore necessitating it being left where it was, rather than further east in the White Mntns wilderness along Rte 112 or Rte 116.

      Could Maura have been involved, primarily or tangentially, in the Vasi hit-and-run in Amherst,MA?
      In my mind, yes.
      She could have been driving the Saturn herself or some close friend of hers ("secret" boyfriend or someone else) might have been driving her car at the time.
      So, it sure would have been possible.

      Again I come back to the fact that the e-mail quoted by Mr Renner deflects much attention from following any leads pertaining to a possible foul play scenario.
      This bothers me somewhat.
      Or am I just seeing "conspiracies" here?

      Please, chime in with your thoughts on this.

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    3. One wonders if she knew the curve was there. Also, she originally was planning to go to Vermont. I just don't buy the secret lover thing. Why did she need to keep it a secret?

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  10. Let's be clear about something here: We do not know that there are "no records" of communication with a secret boyfriend. In fact, we have no way of knowing that. We are not privy to everything in police files, and neither James nor anyone else can call up Sprint (or whoever) and get her records. And let's think about this: The police might not have all of her records, because it can be like a needle in a haystack, particularly if she was using a throwaway tracphone or similar to communicate with people.

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    1. Yes, true. Thanks for this reminder.

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    2. Right I doubt the other boyfriend theory but IF there was another boyfriend she WOULD use another phone since Billy and his mom paid for the cell phone we all know about. She wouldn't want them to see the records of her calls to another guy and question all the calls/minutes. So... there could be this whole other communication trail out there where she planned everything and none of us are privy to it.

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    3. Tracfone

      In 2004, it was cheap (enough), and virtually anonymous.

      Or calling cards from public land lines.

      Either way, a completely viable way of keeping up a surreptitious relationship.

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  11. Very compelling. So, an obvious question--has anyone working with MM that night confirmed that she left for food? Hopefully she didn't just walk out and "abandon her post" without mentioning it to someone. Or has anyone come forward to say that they possibly sold food to her around that time?

    And my apologies if this has already been discussed, but does anyone know where her car was right after the hit and run? Generally, even at lower speeds, hitting someone or something leaves some kind of evidence. Even if it was something as simple as paint chips on the victim's clothing.

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    1. I think it would be unlikely that paint chips would be left. This was a Saturn which was essentially had a bumper made of plastic. I wrecked a Saturn a few times and there were no "chips" of paint left.

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    2. It was said years ago that an empty package from a "replacement light" for the car was found in the abandoned Saturn. Forum posters don't know if it was for an interior light or a headlight.

      I wondered at one point if her dad came up to Amherst to, among other things, purchase and replace a headlight for her. Maura's family and friends heavily attacked me on a discussion forum for this idea. They started talking about how many cars had problems with interior lights burning out and that many people carried replacement cabin lights in their cars. Right. I thought LE should check out that cardboard package (which I guessed was kept as evidence) and see if the store name was on the price sticker --- and maybe see where that led... I'm sure LE was way ahead of me on that!

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    3. I wonder if there really was a replacement light package or if it is just something that was a rumor in the old forum. When you said, "They started talking about how many cars had problems with interior lights burning out and that many people carried replacement cabin lights in their cars." That sounds really fishy to me. Why would they need to explain that. Plus you're right, I don't think many people just carry around replacement bulbs for their cars.

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    4. It was reported on Porchlight International that the damage to Maura's car was not consistent with a crash into a tree and snowbank as would have occurred had she wrecked on Rte. 112. Here is the link:

      http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=13207&st=0

      It had some interesting information that I had not previously read. Including a map that shows which house belonged to whom. It helped me to have a broader understanding of who was doing what in those minutes following Atwood's meet with Maura.

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  12. You should verify the method used to track the IP addresses. It is not always possible to determine the location of a user, and additionally the process can sometimes yield inaccurate or misleading locations.

    Chris

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    1. You are correct. I think it depends on the service one uses. According to my Ip address, I'm in Taunton sometimes and Bridgewater other times, but I'm not in either place.

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  13. This theory has been discussed widely in other forums, with most thinking it highly unlikely she would have left her position as a security guard to drive her car off campus and then return, etc.

    My thoughts are that what likely upset her greatly was that she had gotten in trouble for credit card theft yet again, per yer prior post, and that she perhaps found out that she was going to be asked to leave UMass.

    She had a world of trouble going on... I strongly believe she planned to get away and continued on that course after the wreck. It seems a real stretch that she also was involved in a hit and run - all while taking a break on the job.

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    1. I agree. I think that letter is a fake.

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  14. I wonder if perhaps Maura has read this blog? If so, and if this is true, God you love Maura for taking command of your life and making so difficult a decision. Fanciful thought probably.

    You know, if I was Maura, I might call James myself and say I wanna help you tell my story. Because at this point, her case has touched a lot of lives. And there are a lot of people suffering and scared in this world and who knows what the truth of her story might mean to the next person facing so steep a set of problems that no 21 year old kid should face.

    Ay karumba ... this has just knocked me over. It rings like the truth to me. James ... man alive ... dude .... and excuse my language .... good f_______ work!

    ~ John Green

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  15. I'd also like to remind that this theory squares with at least one other fact not mentioned in the email itself, perhaps corroborating it. In my much pouted over not posted, "novella" : ) I laid out specfically a proof based on known facts that (a) Maura stopped somewhere for most likely in range of 40 to 55 minutes. This could have taken her to various interesting places, including - potentially - close enough to that tower to have been the source of ping. It also could take her to various population centers along the way, including at least two significant colleges (Dartmouth and Keene). In fact, there may be reason to think that visiting Keene College resulted in the ping even though it is more than 20 miles away (technical thing that I wont reiterate). My point is if you do the math around her trip, there is no question that there is some slack time. This fits in well with the other person already being in southern NH. AND, she may have driven to that person's place, whereupon, they towed her car. They may have been towing to a planned site to stage an accident when she flew of the tow. Oh oh, and her comes Bruce. She shoos him away but probably senses that with all the houses around the cops are coming. All that booz might have been part of the plan. Maybe it was spilled there on purpose. The rag in the tailpipe was to signal the tow (something that is often). When she flew off the tow, they figured, well, not where we planned this, but good enough lets go. Hastily, she stuffed the rag into the tail pipe. They left.

    If further analysis and clues were to lead to this scenario being possible, somebody ought to go check under the front bumper of that Saturn, which I think is still sitting at Troop and that was towed away on a flat bed, to see if there is any evidence of a rope or chain scarping against the bottom of the bumper, which would happen when you go around corners.

    Hell, I will drive up there from Asheville, NC and do it.

    Again, James ... you are the man. This is incredible. And it just RESONATES with truth.

    ~John Green

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    1. Why would she need to signal the tow? The car was left there and if she left on her own why would she care what happens next to the car? The tow truck would be coming no matter what.

      The rag issue needs to fit into the story (theory). Perhaps the car was having issues and she pulled over before the accident to troubleshoot the situation. If she was following someone they could have pulled over together and maybe put the rag in the tailpipe to test for exhaust leaks. They could have then left forgetting to take the rag out causing the car to stall at the WB turn causing MM to panic and lose control. Then she could have left the car after the BD left and walked to the other vehicle leaving the scene.

      The BD mentions no other car. Maybe the other car had to turn around and come back after noticing MM was not following any longer. Or perhaps the other car witnessed the spin out and pulled over further up the road and waited for BD to leave the scene.

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    2. I am a woman. I've attended all kinds of car breakdowns on the road. Even I know you don't "put the rag in the tailpipe to test for exhaust leaks." You open the window for air if you smell fumes and keep driving. No point in troubleshooting on the spot for a car already in poor mechanical shape unless you've got a battery pack with you or an AAA card to flip.
      If I haven't been aware in all my bloody years of shoving a "rag" up an exhaust pipe, then it's doubtful a 21 y/o would take that first step.
      Crash Car Dummies 101

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    3. FM has stated he told Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe as a remedy for a problem (he didn't say what problem, that I've seen).

      FM has also stated that the car was "running on 3 cylinders". This could be taken literally or figuratively.

      I just spoke with a friend who is a BMW Factory Trained Master Technician. The only reason he could think of for stuffing a rag in the tailpipe as recommended by FM was if the car had extremely low compression. This would be the case for a car literally running on three cylinders. Low compression in general is also a problem that would lead car people to say "it's only running on three cylinders" as slang. My friend said the car would run so terribly this would only be a "get to a gas station or exit the freeway" solution. Very doubtful she'd have stuffed it in there at any time before the accident unless she had pulled over with car trouble just before the crash.

      The rag really bothered me in the beginning. Now I think it's indicative of something we already know: Maura wanted to flee the scene of the accident.

      I think it went something like this. Maura wrecks. She's got to flee, she's drunk. Her car won't start. The bus driver comes by and she asks him not to call the police but (rightly) gets the impression that he's going to.

      She tries to restart the car but it still won't start. She hurries into the trunk, stuffs the rag in the tailpipe like her father had told her and tries again. The thing still won't start.

      She knows she doesn't have much time so she locks it up and heads out on foot.

      About a hundred yards down the road she is abducted by aliens and flown away in a red truck, never to be seen again. Mystery solved. (Just kidding about the aliens of course and I apologize if you find it offensive. I've been reading this blog for way too long in one sitting and was just thinking that every possibility had been discussed except...)

      -TL

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  16. yo who ever wrote this is probably the killer hes trying too make us all think shes still alive cuz he dont want the case to get attention

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    1. Possible. He or she never mentioned the credit card thing, which I believe is true.

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  17. yo mr renner if u got that persons ip who wrote this give the info too the cops because if someone went through all that trouble too write that if it is a hoax hes trying too make people focus on her being alive rather then diseased he could be the killer if someone did kill her they are gonna try their best too spread disinformation

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    1. I too, have been following this story since day 1 and never heard tell of a hit and run. This is the first hearing of it. Also this post that says she is alive, does ring the truth and I almost closed the book myself in wanting to believe she is fine. I believe too that someone is wanting everyone to do, what i almost just did, close the book.

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  18. It really does explain one thing that always bugged me. Why did she refuse help from SBD? Why did she lie and say police already called? Especially and I mean especially since once he left the car and went back to the bus, why not call them then? Never made sense to me unless she was planning on getting away from the car quickly and meeting someone maybe further up the road, perhaps that was the little red light the Westmans saw she was calling the person she was meeting WITH a cellphone that we didn't know about. That's key, with a cellphone we wouldn't be able to see the records for. That part of the story just never jived to me, now seeing that up above it makes sense. The final note of the Billy cheating thing on top of the boxes almost like a 'see ya' and this is one of the reasons I'm saying see ya.

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    1. It´s actually highly unlikely that Maura would have been able to get any kind of cellphone signal where her car ended up, whether she had a spare cellphone or not.
      At the time there was no cellphone coverage in that area, and apparently it´s still very spotty to this day.

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  19. I never could figure out the stuffing the rag into the exhaust pipe thing. I have never heard of doing that. Does anyone have an idea what she may have been trying to do? I don't get it at all.

    I agree that she lied about the police being called either because 1) she was drunk or 2) she was meeting up with someone and talking to the police would have ruined her plans.

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    1. See post above.

      Putting a rag in the tail pipe is a way to test for exhaust leaks. If your car is running funny or loud you can test to see if there is a leak by blocking the tail pipe.

      It will stall the car if enough oxygen can't get to the engine. Pressure will build up and try to push the blockage out. However if there is a partial block then maybe the car simply stalled due to the lack of oxygen.

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  20. I don't buy that at all. If you're checking for a leak you're not driving the car. And I don't know anyone who tests exhausts that way. Certainly not young women.

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  21. I don't know anything about cars, hoping someone here can respond. How long would a car have to sit there and cool off before you could shove a rag up the tail pipe?

    In other words, is it possible that she or someone else shoved the rag up the tail pipe in that brief time after the accident? Or would the exhaust pipe have been too hot to not get burned.

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  22. I bet the reason she left her dorm that night after drinking to see her father was because she wanted to confess the hit and run. His anger regarding her crash on the way over probably put the kabosh to that.

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  23. I think an August post will answer the question about the rag.
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/08/lavoie-says-fred-murray-explained.html

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  24. Thank you, James, for your continued research. I am so very impressed at the new leads/ information you are able to unearth.

    I just wanted to comment on the possibility of Maura leaving her receptionist job and hitting the young man with her car.

    This is a highly unlikely scenario. When a receptionist took a break, the supervisor would sit at their post (desk) and wait for them to get back. The breaks would generally be 5 minutes, as the receptionists would be offered multiple breaks per night (multiple visits per night from various supervisors). The reason for such a shortened break, but multiple opportunities, is that the supervisors would need to immediately leave if a problem arose in their general area. Thus, the receptionists would stay in the same building for their break, or in close proximity outside. If the supervisor noticed that a receptionist was gone for quite awhile, they would have notified the dispatcher, especially if the receptionist walked away from the building and towards the parking lot. If a receptionist had gone to the parking lot, drove to Amherst Center,drove back to SW and parked, walked back to the dorm- very unlikely this would have gone unnoticed by the other supervisors in the area.

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  25. maybe somebody who has worked security at UMass could explain it better ... but seemingly everyone talks about her security job as if she were a sworn officer who had to uphold a duty, that she wouldn't just leave her post. was it really such an important post to hold down? she was a college kid who had apparently broken the law with credit card fraud; i don't see it being such a stretch that she'd up and leave for a break without telling anyone. if she got caught and fired, oh well. no?

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    1. I agree. If this is the type of job I am thinking of, "security guard" is way, way overstating it. Front desk clerk is a bit closer to reality.

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    2. She was a security guard for Melbourne an all girl dorm at the time my freshman year. She.checked me in there many times as I had many friends who lived there. I can't speak for that particular building but I lived in pierpont which is also in sw and there were many times security wasn't there checking ids and whatnot. So I don't know how reliable the "break system" on record truly is.

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  26. Anyone remember the "spider" crack in the windshield, which Fred mentioned in his letter to the governor and is visible in some pictures of the car (not James's)? To me it looked a bit high up for a woman's head to have hit the glass, and if it did, I'd have thought it would have caused unconsciousness. Just another weird thing:
    http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/11/25/maura-murray-cold-case-photos-and-video/maura-murray-windshield/

    Chris

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    1. I cant seem to see the crack in the window in James's photo either.....and you're right, it seems very high on the windshield for a woman's head to hit. And how does that work when airbags deploy? Would the air bag deploy first and then she hit her head on the window? I have no clue about how those things work. Was it determined that the windshield was cracked by force from the inside or could it have been that maybe someone threw something at the window, while she was driving & that is what caused her to wreck? I don't know..... So many possibilities & not a lot of answers.

      Jenni

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    2. A few points about the spider crack. It is kind of misleading, I think. (1) In a hard enough hit (particularly if the energy of the hit is strong enough to bounce the car backward, as it appears happened in Maura's case) a windshield can crack or even shatter in place without anything hitting it, simply due to the transmission of the energy of the collision backward through the car. This by Newton's laws of conservation of energy and motion. Incidentally, in this context, what the landing place of the car suggests to me is the same thing the towing operator thought: the accident scene itself looks like the accelerator was stuck or as if she had stalled. If you are going to hit a tree, you hit the breaks. This prevent you from bouncing off and crumples you against the tree. (2) If there was already a small crack in the window (like from a small rock flying up in the roadway while driving) - which could have been there a long time - it may very well have spidered out due to the energy of the collision. (3) Small cracks in windows tend to open up over time just from the vibration of normal operation. So she might have had a small crack that opened up and been there before the accident. (4) Some have said there was an indentation of a head in the windshield. I have have not seen that bit of evidence. I would be surprised if someone who left an indentation in a windshield was not INSTANTLY knocked unconscious. Moreover, if your head hits a windshield hard enough to indent it, your body took some damage also from the steering wheel. She would not have seemed okay to Bruce. Both he and Faith would have reported an accident involving injury had that happened. (5) I agree with you that either airbags or a seatbelt, not to mention the steering wheel, would make it prohibitively unlikely that Maura's head hit the windshield anywhere.

      For me, it all adds up to that car was either whipped off a tow or by some other means run into that tree without a driver. Where it came to rest at least suggests this. This agrees with what the tow driver thought of the scene and it agrees with that "ring of truth" Topix post.

      John Green

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  27. Sometimes my IP address says iI'm in Taunton and other times Bridgewater, but I'm in Attleboro.

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    1. Actually what your IP address is saying - and what an IP address - is a number assigned to you by tower where your transmission first enters the non-wire, non-local portions of the Internet. That number, in fact, sometimes changes, as most service providers use a system of variable IP addresses. In that context, it is possible that your signal can go into that portion of the Internet by different towers. When I look at my own hits on my own website through my analytics program, my IP address can be associated with any of three downtown Asheville towers. But sometimes, it is associated with a tower in Candler, a few miles outside Asheville. This is why pop up advertisements that talk about where you live sometimes are talking about the next town over. The data that specifically identifies your computer is not the IP address (which only represents the internet service provider's ID of your machine but a unique ID associated with your computer, permanently, and programmed into it by the manufacturer. As such, bringing it back to Leone, if he had enough transmissions to work with, he could tell to a high degree of certainty what tower the person lived closest to, because - usually - that is the one that you interact with via your localized wire connections. ~John Green

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  28. So far I have not seen enough evidence to lead me to believe that Maura was involved in the hit and run. Everyone seems to confirm that she was at work at the time. Learning about the credit cards has shed so much light on this case, however, that I am comfortable believing that was the trauma that upset Maura so much. All the years I read about this case, I could tell there was some critical missing piece of information. She was in trouble with the law and was about to get kicked out of school.

    I think many of us look at Maura's life the way we would look at our own lives and we do not see her problems as something we would just disappear over. For us, though, it MIGHT seem rational to take off if we thought we had killed someone, thus we keep trying to come up with scenarios where Maura was involved in the hit and run. But I think perhaps we were raised by parents who were more forgiving, and who we knew would have had our backs even in a pretty big screw-up. I do not think Maura felt that way at all. Recall after her disappearance how her father assured her there was "no problem they could not solve." I think that says a lot about how her family viewed life: you had to achieve, and if you were not achieving, there were only some problems to be solved,and then you could get back to achieving again. I think Maura (correctly) saw that she was never going to fit into that mold.

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  29. It doesn't make sense that anyone who cared about Maura was imploring people to leave her alone would also out for the hit and run on Vasi declaring her a fugitive and giving police cause to bring her to justice.

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  30. I would just like to point out that Maura was a nursing student. She was in a hard program at a respectable University. I find it very, very implausible that she had a secret boyfriend and used disposable cell phones to contact him or had the time to plan the whole elaborate escape along with a staged car accident. Believe me when I tell you, nursing students don't have that kind of time, especially with two jobs on the side.
    Also, as some people have already suggested here, the scene of the crash is a very unlikely spot you'd stage a car accident of any kind. And if her supposed new boyfriend was around, how come he wasn't seen by the bus driver? Or those witnesses who glimpsed the accident from their homes?
    To me too, this seems like a simple far-fetched theory by someone posing as a relative on the internet. No more than that.

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    1. But she did have time to party with friends, steal another students credit card and used it, driving to her fathers hotel room at 2:30am which she crashed most likely due to drinking, and she was sleeping with the assistant track coach, yet she doesn't have time to have a secret boyfriend?? Yeah, I don't buy that.

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  31. I also have a hard time believing that if she was meeting someone, that they were driving tandem with her. I also cannot for one second believe that she flew off a tow. If you were towing someone and they flew off, you immediately stop to assist them. I do, however, find it plausible that Maura could have had a pay-as-you-go phone separate from her other phone. I mean, her boyfriend and his family could easily track and monitor who she was calling and when. Even is she did not have a secret boyfriend, as a private person, that may have been enough for her to want her own phone.

    I also do not think that Maura was a typical "nursing student with two jobs" at this point. Was she hitting the books in her spare time or doing something else? Look, I know almost nothing about Maura's family, but I have seen people who are very good at keeping up one facade, meanwhile living a completely differen life entirely. It is easy for them because that was how they were raised. I also think it is odd that even though Maura has two sister close in age to her, I have never seen one of them talk about how they shared everything, etc., that you usually read when a woman goes missing.

    I guess it is easy for me to empathize with Maura because she and I are the same age, and I am also a private person who liked to do things independently. Trust me, most young women thought it was odd that I would do things like go spend the day by myself. It was very refreshing for me to do that, and yet to them, if you were having a problem, you were supposed to call all your closest friends and yak about it for hours on end. I also will add this: when you are in the stage of life that Maura was in, you sometimes feel that everyone is monitoring all your failures and accomplishments. It is extremely stressful. I think private people like Maura sort of feel a sense of triumph by having something that is "secret" and that no one else knows about.

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  32. I don't think the accident was staged because the neighbors mentioned that cars wiped out there all of the time. Isn't it coincidental that she would choose to stage an accident at that very spot? Also, didn't the investigation notes reveal that she sheared off the corner of a snowbank before hitting the tree on the other side of the road? If I were going to stage an accident, I would just run into the nearest snowbank. To me, it looks accidental. And if memory serves, in both of her accidents, didn't she crash where the road she was driving on dead-ended? She might have had poor night-vision or have been over-driving her headlights.

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    1. This is a very rational argument against staging. I have a couple counter considerations but I think your reasoning is as sound and in general cannot refute it. My counter considerations merely reflect a different intuition than yours.

      Depending on the knowledge of a person she may have been with, perhaps a place known for spin outs was actually the perfect place to stage an accident? It increases the probability of the staging being undetected during the initial response by police. Given their subsequent negligence (which I will come back to in a second), if the accident was staged it was a smartly chosen location.

      Also, the staging would have had to involve damaging the car enough that you could not just drive it away, otherwise the operability of the car itself would raise questions. But I see what you are saying: it would take an improbable level of determination and steeliness to voluntarily drive into tree hard enough that the car bounced of it and spun across the road.

      In that context, I think that if the accident was staged, one theory (supported by some other facts, but like all theories in this case hardly to the exclusion of other theories) is that she and her partner whipped the car off a tow line. Don't have to be in the car for that. But easy to hop in quick when it's done. The appeal of this idea is that it might provide a reason for the rag in the tail pipe (signaling the towing to cars approaching from behind maybe while they were out on I-91). So after the accident, they just shoved the rag up the tail pipe and skiddaddled. This theory would also put the towing car multiple dozens of feet east of the crash, which is where her scent vanished (although that is frustratingly inconclusive because the police - despite the obvious cause for so doing - did not bring a scent dog to the scene that night).

      Incidentally - and I fully sympathize with Fred on this - I think the police goofed badly in this decision. It is an inexpensive and easy step to get a scent dog out there. There is a network of volunteers up there who could have been summoned. And look at it from what the officers at the scene knew that night, not what has subsequently come to be known about Maura. The car hit the tree hard. Head injuries - such as the head hitting the side window - are a distinct possibility. The driver is gone. For all they knew she smacked her head, gradually became confused - as can happen even when someone is clear minded immediately after a head injury - wandered several yards into some woods and collapsed. The dumped out alcohol should have raised their concerns about this possibility even more. But instead they assumed that it was just some kid that ran off because she was drinking and driving. Not implausible given what they knew that night, but no so much so that it forecloses other possibilities. Not at all. Had scent dogs been brought to the scene immediately, one can only speculate how that might have affected the case. As it stands, we don't know for sure what the vanishing of the scent means.

      ~ John Green

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    2. Not sure how your theory on this accounts for the report that the windshield (not the side window, as I understood it) on the driver's side was cracked and crazed from the inside. I gather that when airbags deploy, they then very quickly deflate, so if a person hit more than one obstacle (snowbank, tree, whatever), by the time of the second hit, one might be vulnerable to smacking ones head on the windshield because the airbag had deflated by then. I'm not sure that someone trying to set this up as a fake "accident" would take the time to go inside the car after it came to rest and whack the windshield with some hard object, or that one would even think to do this.

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    3. Good points. But you cannot so easily dismiss the Topix poster's allegation of a staged accident. It explains many known facts. It is necessarily correct, but it is credible & plausible. I did not assert, however, that the cracked windshield is the key. Consider:

      - Yes, her head almost certainly did not cause the crack. Airbag deployment alone strongly so indicates. Moreover, hitting a windshield hard enough to crack it like that would likely cause loss of consciousness, torso injuries from the steering wheel & blood.

      - The crack could have been there already or resulted from the distribution of the energy of the impact, particularly if a small crack existed already. Most windshields if cracked will develop spiders per the vibration of normal operation. Impact could easily spread one out. Police know this, or should.

      As such, the whip off the tow line possibility is credible. It was just my attempt to draw some scenarios consistent with the Topix poster's allegation that Maura staged the accident. I was responding to the poster who pointed out that crashing a car intentionally into a tree hard enough to bounce it across a road takes improbable steeliness. But she may not have been in the car.

      My second point was merely that the police screwed up and should have brought dogs in that night. This is relevant to the staging allegation, because had they done so, we might have another piece of evidence consistent with staging or maybe even resolution of the case. Consider:

      - A concussion can result: (1) from hitting a side window without breaking it; (1) without any skull impact, through violent jerking of the head with respect to the shoulders and consequent shifting the brain relative to the skull, as often happens in car crashes; and (3) airbag deployment - particularly in older model car's like Maura's. Police know this, or should.

      - Sometimes after suffering a concussion, a person is initially okay and coherent (and, in Maura's case, talking coherently with Butch), then gets confused or develops amnesia, maybe panics, or passes out. Even dies. Police know this, or should.

      - The alcohol on the road suggested she was drinking. This increases the odds of her losing consciousness after the accident & being relatively nearby. Police know this, or should.

      - The role of responding officers is to gather information and deal with exigent circumstances, like young women in danger or DUI suspects on the run. Their role is not to reach conclusions about why the accident victim at the scene (she's dodging a DUI). That, if it becomes necessary, is for the detectives. But it looks the officers played detective in concluding that Maura was dodging a DUI. That was negligent.

      - While officers were still at the scene, the dispatcher asked whether the female had shown up at the hospital. Thus, the police department as a whole recognized that she might be injured, dazed and wandering around.

      Thus my point: when the officers got to the scene, they had urgent indications that they should summon scent dogs. It is an easy and inexpensive thing to do. What they did instead is not consistent with the role of police in an investigation. Had they called the dogs, we'd know more about whether the accident was staged. This because had her scent disappeared that night where it did two days later, there would be an unambiguous sign that she got into a car at that point. Absent evidence of struggle - which also would be fresher that night - a strong suggestion would exist that she voluntarily got into the car. That would be consistent with staging as asserted by the Topix poster, although it would not rule out other theories. More importantly, the whole case might have been resolved. I think Fred should be pissed at the police.

      ~ John Green

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    4. I live in the area, and I wholeheartedly feel the Police did a shabby job. It's embarrassing

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  33. Could she have placed the rag into the tailpipe herself after the accident? That way, incase police arrived she could blame the accident on the failure of the car instead of her own inattentiveness. I wouldn't seem too far fetched that she might have known about a plugged tailpipe stalling a car. It seems irrational but maybe not in the mind of a panicked 21 year old.
    I also believe that when she lied to the BD about having called AAA, she hadn't noticed that there was no reception in that area yet. She then set out to find an area where she might have better reception to call someone. I wonder how far away the next area where she could have made a call was.

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    1. Very true. She might have told him she had already called AAA, thinking that she was just about to anyway.

      I really do not think the accident was staged. That would take some massive courage to stage an accident that set off the airbags.

      The reason I do not think she was being towed is that people would have recalled seeing a towed car. That is something people notice for sure. Normally, towed cars are going slower, so people would have passed them. Also, it is very rare to see one car just towing another these days. I cannot remember the last time I saw that, but it was quite a long time ago.

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  34. My guess is either this post is true, or a killer has a helluva mind and time to work out possibilities better than many brains together could. I personally think it makes a lot of sense in explaining basically everything: Why she was crying that night at the dorm job, why she packed her stuff, left a note, the dogs lost her scent, her father's reluctance (he's technically complicit), etc. etc. RE: airbags - knowing they were going to deploy (and basically it's like getting a black eye minor injury) and / or getting a bit drunk to kill the pain before, I would have had no problem risking that for the world of trouble she was in. A hit and run after probation is probably not prison, but definitely jail for some time. Especially considering she was a woman and could use makeup liberally. RE: the phone ping - a phone doesn't mean SHE was there. It simply means the PHONE was there. There could be yet another accomplice, as everybody knows cell towers triangulate your position.

    I think James is tantalizingly close.

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  35. One thought ... James has offered several times for Maura to come forward and confirm to James that she is alright, and living a new life.

    If she was in hiding and all was legit, she probably would have taken him up on it just to be left alone for good. But if there are complications, she may have weighed that as too risky, even fearing possible entrapment. Or she just does not want to re-visit her past - which is her prerogative.

    James ... she may really loathe you if you are close.

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  36. The letter makes her sound like a sociopath. I know that if the letter is true that it was probably written by a third party and they may not be revealing all of her concerns and feelings. I have known a few nurses and emergency responders, while they are not all angels they are usually the type of people who would stop and try to help or get someone help. I can't help but only see sociopath in that letter. Nursing is not the career that I would imagine for someone of that dispostion.

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  37. This is definitely a most interesting and plausible theory. However, if in fact it was stated by MM's cousin, wouldn't she have stated Katherline's name correctly? James stated in another post that MM's sister was often referred to 'Kathleen' instead of 'Katherline' instead- I'm aware that this is a potential typo, just seems curious.
    JW

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  38. The forum post that was copied and pasted sounds like they know Maura quite well. It makes me wonder if that person is Maura herself. In any case, I hope that she's safe and happy wherever she is.

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  39. I'm a 26 year old female & around the age of 22 I went through a heavy drinking phase.I have been in Maura's shoes, can understand her actions and this is my theory:
    If she hit the student, being intelligent and in nursing school, she knew better and had to have a reason: i'm assuming alcohol.I also find the events after suspicious follow me on this: I'm not 100% sure of the timeline but if she hit a student she is freaking out that shes going to get caught with damage or blood on her car. Events after this have her and her father looking for another car. I'm also curious as to why her father let her borrow his new car, where was her car? Did he know that she has hit the student and came in town to help her figure out what to do? She crashed his car early sunday morning around the time all the bars close, was she drunk when this happened?
    i'm curious if any evidence ever suggested that she had booked a room? I feel like she didn't and thats odd because she emptied her checking of $280 thats not enough to stay for a week anywhere.I'm wondering if her dad didn't book her a room so she could lay low until the cops stop combing the area looking for the "hit & run" vehicle.I feel like she emptied the checking account so someone such as her dad/mom couldn't see that she was out of state & not in school! She paid for a room in cash or someone booked a room for her, in their name. This person could've never told this to authorities so Maura wouldn't be convicted of "hit & run", they wouldnt be in trouble for being an "accessory" to the crime by harboring her. Another thing that screams that she was going somewhere to relax was the khalua, baileys, and vodka to make white russians. You need milk to make them and you wouldn't buy milk for your cocktail 200 miles from your destination right? She bought her liquor in town where she knew it was available. Liquor stores aren't everywhere especially in rural areas like she was headed too, nor do they have late hours, she wanted to ensure she had her drink & could stop at any gas station, store etc to get her milk when she was closer.
    Writing her professors and saying there was a death in the family is about the only excuse a student can use, besides a documented medical excuse to get excused from absences and be permitted to make-up missed exams.
    Maura was obviously planning to return. You don't tell your professors anything if you have no intention of returning..you also don't lug around heavy nursing books if you have no intention of using them.
    When Maura wrecked and the bus driver pulled up the car was still relatively warm, she hadn't been out in the cold yet, and she was shook up!Imagine: You're 120lb female, no cell service, and wrecked your car on a cold dark night. You've also been drinking & may be slightly disoriented from the impact, you aren't thinking clearly. I believe when the bus driver came by she thought she could just walk to get help & may not have trusted him especially since he wanted to call police, she lied to prevent him from calling.Ok she also locked her doors which to me indicates she planned on returning and/or didn't want her things stolen until she could return. I believe she didn't want to draw attention to the wreck and before she found a ride or began to walk I think she put the cloth in her exhaust tostop the hot fumes from drawing attention from drivers. I think she got into a vehicle willingly, especially due to the fact that footprints of a struggle would've been found. I think Feb temps hit her VERY quickly and she risked taking the ride.
    Very simple, no twists, just stressed with a string of bad luck, and drinking too much. For all we know she died from internal bleeding or shock in the strangers car, out of fear they never called police?

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  40. The simplest answer is probably the right answer. I say the idea of her being involved in a hit and run accident would be one too many car accidents in a period of a few days. Surely the fellow who was hit has some recollection of the type of car that hit him. It also defies belief that Maura is hiding out from her family somewhere voluntarily. Why would anyone do that to their family for so many years. The anonymous letter about her living in Quebec is intriguing though.

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  41. Can any one answer a question for me. Something that may have been posted many times but this is my 1st time here so please bear with me. Wasnt Maura asked to leave West Point because of something to do with credit cards. Did something then happen at UMass that was similar that was about to come to light. Further wasnt there a checking account that was still open. Please forgive me if I have my facts crossed.
    thank you

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  42. I have followed this case from the beginning and stumbled upon WS about 2 years ago and kept up there (what a waste of time). I just found this blog today (hello from a fellow Ohioan, Mr. Renner) and it has grabbed my undivided attention since. I didn't read every word of every comment, but I skimmed and didn't see one thing mentioned. I also haven't heard it mentioned anywhere else (WS, Disappeared, etc). It's quite possible that it has been and I'm an airhead and missed it, but even googling various phrases provided nothing but this blog as a related result.

    They said that when MM went to the hotel room of FM, violence ensued and that FM has a history of domestic violence. Do we know this to be true? Again, I may have missed where this was discussed here or elsewhere. If it is true and hasn't been widely reported, this may be something worth digging deeper in to. Just my two cents. I could be way off base.

    This story is absolutely perplexing. Evan Ratliff from Wired magazine tried to vanish for 30 days and there was a contest to see if he could be caught. Granted, he couldn't go into isolation and there were some guidelines but he did things that many people who want to vanish would do: drastically changed appearance (multiple times), ditched his car, prepaid cells, strange ATM withdrawals, etc. He was caught with only a few days to go in the contest. My point? While one CAN vanish and start a new life, it is extremely difficult...especially with the advances in technology. If she has pulled it off, it's clearly what she wanted but it would be nice to know that she's ok. Nothing more, nothing less.

    And as I've thought from the beginning, I think FM is an absolutely shady character and knows more than he's telling. His behavior is too strange...especially one of the first comments he made about her going north to commit suicide. Your daughter is missing and that's the first thing you say?

    End long post.

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  43. This may be old news, but I have actually heard its common for deployed airbags to leave behind a crack in the windshield. Maura may not have hit her head.. it may have been the result of the airbags being deployed..which would explain the absence of blood on the windshield. I always had a hard time believing that Maura hit her head, and caused that big of a crack on her windshield, without leaving any blood behind..It would also explain why the crack seems to be so high up, as Maura was 5'7", I doubt she hit her head.. i bet the airbag did that as it deployed out.

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  44. Very interesting. There are many scenarios that are possible. But lets face the truth we will never find out until someone actually involved comes forward. I do believe she had intentions of returning. Why would she give the school an excuse? Why did she take running clothes and books with her to study with? Or maybe the whole idea was to throw us off into thinking she was returning.

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    1. Does anyone remember the murderer John List? He butchered his wife, children, and mother in his home and was on the run for 20+ years. He planned everything meticulously before carrying out the murders. He gave the kids' schools an excuse that they were going on vacation to North Carolina. He knew that the children were never returning, nor was he. He just wanted to buy himself some time. Maura could have done the same thing- gave her professors an idea that she had other plans so the school wouldn't worry. Then she would have had enough time to truly escape.

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  45. I don't see why people have such a hard time believing that there are bad people out here that do bad things to people. I remember taking a counter terrorism class in college taught by a very well experienced international security expert; one of the most interesting asides I learned in that class was that at any time there are 50 documented serial killers on the loose in the US, not even taking into consideration the sexual predators, sex traffickers, and pain old weirdos. If Mafia is still alive and well, that is great and we should all hope for that, however I am truly a skeptic by nature and if she met a more sinister scenario she deserves justice. Not to mention if she is alive, them shame on her for going so long without letting her hurting father know where she is.

    Is it not possible that she, like many college aged kids, worried about their futures, their social and love lives, and, perhaps, fear of disappointing a farther that may have pushed a little hard have just reached a breaking point whereby she just needed a breather? I don't think her absence is a plan, not like she wanted this to go. I think she had secrets. Maybe she wad pregnant....it happens. She wad perfect....that wad not supposed to happen right? Maybe the trip wad to an abortion clinic out of town so no one would know. Logical people don't just run off with secret lovers and live for years without so much as tipping some one off. That does not happen today when you can about trace anyone whether they know it or not. The rag in the tail pipe makes no sense to me, and I think it points to car trouble. Sheseemed inebriated according to one of the last folks to see her alive....and he said nothing of a second car. I would like to know if any rumors our guy stories of people who knew of Mayra were even taken. Wad she assaulted or betrayed by a person in authority (a professor who would have reason to not come forth about his affair with her).......That can be scary for a girl at that stage. I think by chance she ran into a dangerous person, and she was taken away against her will as she did not go away with the bus driver (which I probably would not have either, but hindsight, she would have been better off)......She was running from something, from authority, and whoever took her sensed her distress....took advantage of it. A secret lover would have been found so easy...they would have to have made a trace...she would have to make a living and so would he...and I guess she would just drop her nursing degree yo live on the Lam with some guy that had slow paying low profile job in Canada....I don't think so. Until we have solid proof that she is alive we only know that she is missing, and I presume deceased. I pay for her father, and I wish him the closure I know he seeks...my Harry aches and for him. I don't know how I could function if that happened to my daughter. He deserves to know what happened to his daughter before he passes on. That stated, remember that it is a dangerous world out here....don't be paranoid but do be careful. I use this sorry to let my wife and daughter know to always tell someone, more than one person when you intend to go somewhere for a long time (or, longer than 2 hours), keep you're eyes open, be aware of your surroundings, do not intricate yourself in public, I hereto their cats in good shape, and remind them to keep a charged cell phone and personal defense.

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    1. I agree immensely...People just won't believe there are evil people out there. They'll do just about anything to excuse and justify the actions of abhorrently evil people. It's sickening....evolve already people.

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    2. Well if that IS true then she's a fugitive for the hit and run and leaving the poor student in the middle of the street to die.....Why wasn't she already in jail for that anyway. I'm guessing ignorant and wimpy cops who think women are incapable of committing crimes are to blame for that. Anyway, if that IS true the police should not only be looking for the criminal Maura Murray, but also have her cousin Patti Davidson in jail for aiding and abetting. Since , however, cops have iqs running right alongside their shoe sizes up there, i'm sure she's comfy and cozy in her own home.

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  46. If this was actually what happened to her then Maura Murray is an abhorrent, slutty, hideous, selfish, and disgusting person. How dare she put people who care about her in such an ugly position. What a horrible, trashy, and evil person she would be too for leaving someone in the middle of the street to die. If i was her father i'd smack the shit out of her as well. She'd deserve it like nobody else.

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  47. How did she get into Canada? Would't she need ID? There would be a record of that.

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    1. I'm fairly confident someone with authority has checked whether Maura Murray entered Canada and the fact that no one has came out and confirmed it suggests she isn't in Canada, so therefore the part of the story isn't true. We'll need to wait for someone to come up with a theory of how she got into Canada, fake passport? they'll tie it in with the credit card fraud no doubt. Maybe I've missed it, can someone confirm how she entered Canada without leaving a trace? As for people helping her disappear, the chances of a person or multiple accomplices assisting her to disappear and to keep quiet about it for so long is highly unlikely. Someone would have spoken out by now

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    2. Of course she did not need a password, you did not need any kind of ID between US and Canada at that point. The only thing you would need in order to live in Canada is ID for tax purposes is you work.

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  48. lol seriously?

    Canada doesn't give a shit. They're not racist and xenophobic like the US.

    I was traveling back and forth between the US and Canada around this time , sometimes alone sometimes with others, and never was asked by Canada for my ID, but always was asked when we tried to get back into the country. Even though I had US tags on my car.

    Not to mention, there are many ways to cross the border without using a checkpoint.
    And even if one did use a checkpoint, all one would have to do is hop in the trunk or the back of a SUV or hatchback with a blanket for 5 minutes. Not exactly rocket science.

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  49. Atonyclifton, well no idea what "slutty" has to do with anything.

    But I would agree that if one were to disappear of ones own free will while their parents suffered and searched the woods incessantly for you, is sociopathic.

    These people lack credibility because they are not willing to come forward and make these claims like an adult. Anyone can post their theory on a website and claim to have first hand knowledge. Doesn't mean anything. We all have our pet theories.

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  50. That post was fake. The dead giveaway was revealing Maura as a hit and run criminal and fugitive from justice, and then imploring all idiotically to leave her in peace after revealing that.

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  51. i just got finished watching a show...disapeared .about this case and desided to lookit up online.i read all these posts.ur all idiots.this poor girl was prolly killed by some local sicky driving by seen her broke down.thetes alot of land to make someone disapear up there.i feel sorry for her parents especialy her dad.idk what id do if anything happended to mine.i would check thebus driver though.

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  52. ur all idiots.the girl prolly got kidnapped by a local sicko and will never be seen again.its sad.i would check the bus driver

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  53. Hi everyone,
    Im from holland and just saw dissapeard on tv,what bothers me is this, if she had a car accident, why werent the wine bottles broken? The alcohol she bought was all gone?

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  54. I would like to know more about the liquor...was everything she bought accounted for? All bottles inside the car?

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  55. I hope she is found, just so her parents will know if she is alive or not.This case scares me when I think about it,not knowing what happened,imagining the worst?It is just sad.

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  56. I too just watched the Disappeared episode and it seems everyone on this post is thinking into this too too much. But I do think it is BS that the show left out the credit card fraud issue that she had and painted this girl as a Saint that could do no wrong, I knew better than that and that's why I am here.
    I just wanted to mention my two cents. If the area of the wreck was snow covered couldn't the local police just have fallowed her tracks? Did they end at the 100 foot marker where the dog lost it's sent? This is a story that can go many ways and those ways starts at the crash site. I want to believe some backwoods killer, if that's the case though, there would be more missing persons in the area. Has anyone checked up on that? A serial killer doesn't do this one time and call it quits they do it again and again. All I know is that she was running from something and that something was she credit card fraud that would make anyone run, specially getting in trouble for it again. That's a felony! My GF is a nursing student and you can't have anything on your record if your planing on being a nurse. So I could see her taking off. But anyways all I know is, that girl can't drive for Sh*t!

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  57. Interesting tall tale. There was a post on the Franconia topix forum almost identical to the one posted here, which I sent to the FBI in 2009. This post came from a lawyer from Mississippi, who seemed to have a personal grudge against Fred Murray and Citigirl. This person on several forums went to great and extraordinary lengths to discredit Maura, Fred and anyone associated with this family. Why?! If not psychiatrically unstable, then his motive could only be that he was paid by someone to deflect attention away from suspects or potential suspects, at least this is the appearance.

    I'd be very cautious in posting such material as it is libellous from many points of view: (this is a criminal investigation)
    Patti and Fred are adding and abetting a fugitive
    The Murray family would be libellous for damages to Vasi
    The Murray family would be libellous for searches and cost of investigation of accident and what happened to Maura Murray
    The poster and author are libellous for spreading false rumours
    The Murray family have potential for suing anyone who would spread such rumours
    Who in Taunton Mass or who has ties to there, would want the investigation to shift from Haverhill to Canada, and this is not Citigirl nor the Murray Family, who else?

    Did Maura Murray have reason to run away from her life, perhaps and probable, did she, not likely. Does Law Enforcement believe this tale, perhaps, probable no. Reason being they recently searched a property in the vicinity of the accident site bringing in cadaver dogs, would they have done this if they believed Maura was living in Canada. Absolutely no!

    Suggestion: seek out the Lawyer who was posting this same material, to find out his motive. But as far as putting this into print, it is my opinion that this should be filed in a chapter with the other loonies who have gone to great lengths to interject themselves in this investigation, to discredit Maura and the Murray family and seek their 15 minutes of fame.

    Personally given the libellous nature of this post, I'd check back with law enforcement and find out if there is any credibility to this material, and would like to see law enforcements' comments posted just under the letter.

    Mr. Renner if you really are sincere about finding out what happened to Maura, you'd have checked with police as to the veracity of this post/letter/email. Topix is not a place where credibility is rampant and personally as a journalist/writer I'd want to have all my sources checked, and rechecked; cut once measure twice!

    On Topix; the poster's name was Mason and or Fred, many pages were erased after posting an almost identical letter and after announcing this post was sent to the FBI, over 100 pages were deleted from the Topix forum, who and how this happened I have no knowledge. Mason's posts can be viewed on another forum http://findmauramurray.fr.yuku.com

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  58. Highly unlikely that Maura Murray ran away to begin a new life. I do not think that a kind, sensitive & intelligent girl would be able to keep silent, while watching her tormented father pour his heart out on the news year after year, in his quest to find his daughter. She would be pretty heartless watching her father dying inside day after day, & never letting him know that she is okay at least. Why wouldn't she let him know? She's an adult. All she would have to say is, "I'm okay, now leave me alone". How can anyone believe those rumors? They seem almost silly to me. I feel for her family.

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  59. It is so easy to come up with theories of maura staging her own disappearance with help from various people. But the sad reality of this case is that she was very likely to have been abducted and killed by some predator. It's no use saying her father was upset because he was asked to leave and this somehow led to her wanting a new life and ultimately her disappearance. Plenty of families have in house disagreements, it doesn't mean they all suddenly take off! The same as people suffering from depression don't all take off as has been said about maura suffering from this. All her personal belongings were found which does point to the very obvious but sad fact she was taken. From all accounts of her family she was a conscientious girl and from this I doubt very very much that she would have left them all in limbo and a state of perpetual worry all these years without so much as one call. It's very easy to put two and two together and come up with 55 when a person has vanished. I just hope one day she is found so her family can lay her to rest and finally get some sort of closure.

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  60. One of MM relatives has a site called mauramurraymissing.com. At the bottom is a link to the official accident report...couple of things that I noticed:
    1. at 1940 (7:40pm) a woman by the name of Faith Westman reported a car in the ditch right on sharp turn after weathered barn...unknown if personal injury, but can see a man sitting in vehicle smoking a cigarette.
    (My question is did Maura smoke??? She was known for being an althlete/runner. Could this be the new boyfriend?)
    2. at 1954 (7:54pm) dispatch says all fire units be on the lookout for a 5'07" female on foot.
    (My question is how did dispatch, or Cecil Smith, of the local police department, know how tall she was?)
    3. at 2050 (7:50pm) message is..."any luck locating the party or has she shown at the cottage?"
    (My question is what cottage??)

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  61. I have been studying this case casually for a couple years now, and while the writer makes a nice "theory" and is able to link number of unexplainable events together to come up with a nice story, it is simply not based on facts and/or evidence. First, the night before she leaves she does a number of searches and phone calls to various locations seemingly looking for a hotel, or a lodge, etc. She seems to have no "plan" in place and is desperately searching for somewhere to go, seemingly. While it may be possible that she had a secret boyfriend, there is simply not a shred of evidence (cell phone records, emails, other girl friends that would have picked up on something, etc) that would point to that. In addition, if she had a boyfriend that she was THAT close to, so that she would run off to another country with to start a new life, surely this would have been a relationship that would have been ongoing for a while at least. With regard to her leaving work for an hour, hitting a UMASS student and leaving him for dead, there is simply no evidence whatsoever to indicate this. There has not been one student come forward and state that he/she entered the dorm during that time and did not see Maura at her post. What about workers at whatever restaurant she went to, to buy this supposed coffee and food? No one has ever come forth to say that the served her this food. This is 100% conjecture on the writer's part, and supported by no facts whatsoever. Thirdly, this is a 21 year old girl, not a professional stunt car driver. For Pete's sake, you really expect us to believe that she could purposely crash her car into a snow bank, spin it around 180 degrees, cause the air bags to deploy, in the view of neighboring houses, in order to hide the crash marks on her car from a previous crash. Please. This accident she had was exactly that, an unplanned accident. One observing neighbor saw Maura in a "flurry of activity in the back seat and at the trunk". Once she realized that the police might be on their way, Maura was frantic to get the heck out of their as quick as possible. Took as much of the liquor as she could into her back pack, and what other personal belongings she could, and fled. Butch Atwood clearly stated that in the minutes before the police arrived there were "a few vehicles" that passed down that road. In my view, there is your answer staring at you right in the face. The dog's scent traced her 100 yards east of the accident, which is the way she was heading already. Once she started running away from there, she quickly realized that it was way to cold to make it very far. She opted for a ride with one of the passing vehicles. Whether or not this was a friendly encounter or her demise, will always be subject to conjecture, until she is found.

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  62. Slight correction to my comments above. I believe 100% she was seen by Mr. Forcier running along the side of the road heading eastbound. According to Forcier, he saw her about 4 - 5 miles away, around 8:30 pm. So, if she eventually did accept a ride from someone, it was quite a distance from the accident.

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  63. In my view the writer of this supposed "truth" about what happened to Maura,makes a fatally flawed comment. She states " According to Maura's sister Kathleen, they were having 'serious problems.' Wait a second. Why in the world is the writer referencing Maura's sister here? Throughout her statement, she wants us to believe she has direct personal knowledge of everything. For example, her final sentence is "She is happy and contented and just wants to be left alone", as if the writer knows this personally and directly. So, the writer makes a fatal flaw when saying "according to Maura's sister . . ." Why would she have heard this from Maura's sister, when she could have gotten it directly from Maura, just like everything else in her statement. Silly, if you ask me.

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  64. Actually alot of girls do this and don't care. I was reading about one girl whose parents thought she was missing and searched for years and she ended up coming home when she was 20 years old and had been living with someone. (due to troubles in the family etc). Another girl claimed she was going to Denver for modeling and ended up "missing" by her parents she never called them or acknowledged them and she was spotted in California living a new life alone and changed her name. This happens alot and she probably did stage a car accident like it says above. Because she either got in a car with someone and left or she got in the car with someone she knew and left. If she didn't they would have found her by now. She ran off with someone or she got in the car with a stranger. those are the only logical options.

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  66. Does mauras cousin know true story of Barb (McDougall) and Patti (Davidson) are Maura's cousins and they ... Someone had posted the supposed "true" story of what happened to Maura. .... Watch disappeared on i.d. its on season one, the boyfriends parents that http://topusachannels.blogspot.com/2013/03/investigation-discovery-live-stream.html
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