Monday, February 20, 2012

Request for info...

Take another look at this quote from Nancy Smith at the appeal hearing:

Ms. Smith: I'm concerned about that, because, again, this is, to the extent this is a small community, the people know... the people, the identity of those people is fairly well known.
Is it possible that their person(s) of interest could be from a family that is well known in the area? That's one way to read that statement.

The strange thing is, this piece of information jives in an interesting way with that report I heard awhile back about brothers who worked at Loon Mountain being questioned by police.

Along this train of thought, is there a reason why the AG office was representing this case? I mean, it's a Grafton County case, right?

If you have any information that could help connect some dots here, I would be interested to hear it. Email: becarriedaway@hotmail.com

Keep in mind, I will not allow comments on the identities of uncharged suspects. I'll read them, and do some research, but they will not be posted.

50 comments:

  1. you're really doing a great job here! You have uncovered so much! keep it up!

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  2. Mr renner,
    In the past Kingcast has indicated the possibility of a well known family having involvement.Hence the possible coverup.

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  3. Thank you for these most recent postings. I am starting to come to the conclusion that aside from the fact that it may have caused Maura to let her guard down more than a reasonable person, the events in her life have absolutely nothing to do with what happened on that fateful evening. I believe the mystery starts when she exited the highway and headed east.
    Think about some of the facts we know in this case. LE was more than happy to tell us or acknowledge as true the fact that Maura withdrew money from an ATM, exactly what liquor she bought, when she last used her cell phone, what searches she did on her computer, what was in her car, etc.....but to my knowledge they have never told us where she filled her tank with gas just prior to her accident. Wouldn't it have made sense for us to hear all along LE to say something to the effect of "We know she stopped at such-and-such gas station and paid with cash to fill her tank." But nothing. No one to my knowledge has come forward saying she was seen at any gas station. Either there would have been a credit card record of a purchase or she would have encountered someone face to face to buy the gas. With that in mind, reread the quote from the supreme court argument: "Knowing exactly where we determined the last place she was could be valuable information to that person." Are we reading this quote wrong in prior posts? Could Smith mean the last place she was PRIOR to the crash? Could this mean LE is aware of where Maura filled her gas tank?
    If a rag from Maura's own trunk was stuffed way up into her tagpipe, it was either done just after the crash (I'm losing faith in this possibility), or it was done a short ways before the crash site. The way in which she crashed is consistent with a stalled car rather than an impaired driver not turning the wheel enough to the left. I think we really need to focus on where Maura stopped for gas, what she did there, and who else was there. If she was stuffing a rag into her tailpipe on her own accord, this would have stood out like a sore thumb to anyone watching. It is even possible that she asked for help or someone offered help. Maura could have said something to the effect "My dad told me to shove a rag up in the tailpipe to keep the car from smoking." All of these goings on at the gas station could have been the lucky day for some bad apple. After she departed, they followed behind knowing it was only a matter of time before the car stalled out. They stop to offer help. Maura may have even been happy to see that it was the same person who helped her at the gas station. With time running out before a DUI arrest, she may have thought this was HER lucky day that this person just happened to be passing by...

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    1. This is the direction I'm leaning too. It's looking more and more like she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also wasn't there a soda bottle with alcohol found or the scent of alcohol ? She had to stop and get a soda and fill it up with the booze...maybe someone saw she was tipsy...I keep faith this innocent girl is alive and in hiding, but all this new found stuff is very telling.

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    2. How long would it take a rag in the tail pipe to stall a car? For that matter, how would the gas station clerk have had a chance to run outside and shove it up there? Or does NH have full-service gas stations? Although I suppose it could have been just another customer at the gas station...

      Interesting theory, though, makes a lot of sense.

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    3. I also have thought it strange that there has never been much information about Maura stopping for petrol. In fact it was only through this blog that i first read she nearly had a full tank so she must have stopped somewhere. In the "Disappeared" programme they also list the stops at the ATM and the off-licence but no mention of a stop at a garage. That does seem strange as the programme seems to have been made approx 4 years after she disappeared so surely by then it was known she had to have stopped for petrol. I imagine the producers and researchers of these type of programmes must fully investigate all the details of the cases that they show so it does make you wonder were they asked for whatever reason not to divulge this. I know that doesn't make sense as the idea of the programme is to try and jog someone's memory or get some new information to solve a case. Just another puzzle!
      ~MF

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    4. I agree--if someone put a rag in the tail pipe, they likely did it at a gas station and then followed her. That also makes it easier to believe someone came along in such a short amount of time to "help" her after the accident. As far as having to "wait until the pipe cooled down," I think perhaps this problem could be solved by using a clothes hanger or something similar. Or gloves could have been used.

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  4. You heard a while back? hmmm I assume this wasn't in the media?

    The only brothers I know of regarding this case were the "knife brothers"....one of which is deceased now.

    Brian

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  5. I thought Fred was going after the NH State Police, not Grafton County. If so, that would make it a matter for the AG's office, no?

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  6. I think this could go both ways. If they were to uncover people of interest, they would more than likely get a very bad reputation and probably be harassed in the small community they live in. I grew up in a very small town in Maine, and that was the same issue. Everyone knew everyone. So if anyone were to point fingers in my hometown, that person would most likely be looked at as an outcast, be harassed at work, and even just out in town. Maybe they're just protecting innocent people who they have no real evidence to charge them on. I'm not sure. Or maybe you are right. I just wanted to tell you you're doing a great job, and really digging deep into this, nothing seems to get past you! Keep it up!!

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  7. This is now officially a cold case. It is not being actively worked.Is there any legal grounds for someone to go back in front of the courts petitioning the release of the documents?
    froggy

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    1. The law enforcement keep insisting it's still an active case. For whatever that's worth to us.

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  8. I agree w/Feb 20, 2012 07:46 PM. I'd like to know how long she was at the gas station, who saw her there and what all she did there. No one can stick a rag in a tailpipe until 15-20 minutes after the car has been turned off without getting severely burned, so I don't think that happened at the gas station or at the accident scene. I believe Maura may have been naive enough to think it may help keep smoke from emitting from the car. Maybe that's why the car drove so bad. Sounds crazy, but to me, so does ANY reason to put a rag in your car's tailpipe.

    Brian

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    1. Brian,
      Very valid points there.
      As I see it there are only two possibilities regarding the rag in the tailpipe (which according to several reports was fairly clean and pushed quite some way into the tailpipe).

      1. It was put there by some perp with evil and nefarious intentions if/when Maura stopped somewhere for at least 15-20 minutes within a fairly short distance from the accident site on Rte 112. `
      Could she have stopped for gas somewhere along US302 in Woodsville or in Wells River, VT, across the Connecticut River?
      Perhaps there was a fastfood place or similar adjacent to the gas station, where she had something to eat for 15-20 minutes or so?
      That might have given a perp prowling around enough time to insert the rag into the tailpipe, which by when would have cooled down enough.

      2. Someone for whatever reason (to muddy the waters?) put the rag in the tailpipe of the Saturn AFTER it was found crashed on Rte 112.
      We don´t know when and by whom the rag in the tailpipe was actually discovered.
      Was the Saturn even kept indoors after it was towed away from the accident site to IIRC Haverhill?
      Perhaps it was just parked outdoors overnight, giving whoever the chance to put the rag in the tailpipe for whatever reason.

      I frankly can´t see any other alternatives than the two above.
      And I agree it´s surprising that there´s never been any kind of public information as for where Maura got gas for the Saturn.
      Perhaps this is because LE knows where she got gas and for some reason(s) doesn´t want this fact known, as it possibly might harm the investigation by alerting someone?

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    2. According to the guy who towed the truck the rag was shoved pretty far up in the tail pipe so someone would had to have used a long stick or some thing similar. If so then it would not have mattered if the tail pipe was hot or the car was running. If Maura did it she would not have had time for the car to warm down since she was not there long enough.

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    3. If the rag was way up the tailpipe i would think that something was used other than a persons hand to get it there. Maybe a stick or something. Also there are 2 places to stop for gas right as you exit 302 and get onto 112. One is a cumberland farms. If she were headed to Bartlet wouldn't it make sense to get off at 112 (she knows the area)stop at cumberland farms and get gas and maybe a coke (coke bottle found at the scene).Did she also go to the bathroom. That would give someone enough time. rather than getting back on 302 she decided to take the scenic route or slower road because her car was not running well. It is also possible that she wasn't intoxicated but bought the coke when she stopped for gas, filled it up with alcohol knowing she was almost at her destination. And just an FYI there are I believe 6 registered criminals that live within a stones throw from the 2 gas stations on 112 in Woodsville.

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    4. Here's a dumb question. If the rag was "shoved way up the tailpipe" how did anyone know to look for it??

      Not a typical thing to do when having an accident vehicle towed; look in the tailpipe? Never had anyone check my tailpipe when I've gone off the road.....

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    5. Anonymous 05:38
      I´m confused here.
      I´ve been checking out Google Maps/Street views and following US302 through Woodsville and then NH10/US302 east to the NH112 intersection.
      I can´t see any Cumberland Farms store along that route, just the old Stage Stop Store on Rte 112 in Swiftwater village.
      Please, enlighten us.
      Thanks!

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    6. Correction - the Cumberland farms is just before you turn onto 112 on center street.

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    7. GBNeal...That's exactly what I was thinking....how in the heck did they even know to look there in the first place?

      Jenni

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  9. One big problem with any of those that believe someone sabatoged Maura's car with a rag in the tailpipe (in a plan to abduct her)

    Why would they not grab her the minute her car wrecked in front of several houses. Why would they wait some 20 minutes to do something.

    Doesn't make sense.

    Maura wrecked around 7:10-7:20 p.m., school bus driver approached her and the wreck site minutes later.

    Maura went missing just minutes before the first officer arrived on scene which was at 7:46 p.m.

    Why would someone have the foresight to let someone wreck and then wait them out for 20 minutes before going to the scene and finally getting around to kidnapping them?

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    1. If they put the rag in the tailpipe at the gas station located a mile before the crash site they could have left minutes after Maura as to not draw attention to them. If they knew enough to put the rag in the tailpipe they knew how long the car could go before stalling. Maybe they didn't foresee the accident happening but perhaps expected to see the car stalled on the side of the road.

      Once arriving at the scene they could have seen the SBD talking to Maura and then waited until he left before approaching.

      Then maybe they pulled 100 or so yards past the car and got out and waived Maura into their car.

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    2. Your timeline is incorrect I believe. The first call came at 7:27 from the neighbor Faith Westman, who probably called pretty quickly after the thump (see the police report and dispatchers report.) The police showed up at 7:43. That is 16 minutes. Butch arrived from his bus on his property a couple minutes after crash, they talked, then he walked back to his house and also called the police. Maura walked around the car a bit according to Faith Westman, then - according to the scent dogs 2 days later - moved 100 yards down the road. So the approach of Butch, talk with him, moving around the car, gathering up the stuff she took, going 100 yards down the road, then possibly jumping in a car (probably voluntarily as there was no sign of a struggle) occurring in 16 minutes sounds right. So if she was "snatched" by a saboteur, the time frame is about right but she probably got into the vehicle willingly. ~John Green

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    3. No of us know exact times and exactly where she would end up so if someone was waiting for Maura to wreck then first he had no way of knowing if she would have wrecked directly in front of a house like she did. Second, since we do not know exact times Maura could have been there only minutes before the bus arrived and the other car could have been in back of the bus and turned off the road when he saw the bud driver pull over to assist Maura. Since she was in front of a house he or they could have waited to she what Maura was up to. Seeing her walk away was a perfect opportunity for them to catch up to her and offer he a ride.

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  10. That's what gives the "brothers" thing a theory, as if you are a young adult and you see some other young adults stop by offering to help you'd likely accept their help as you'd think they'd be more open to the "hey I'm drunk I just crashed I don't want the cops to find out" method of thinking. Perhaps these brothers stopped by, offered help, asked her to come for a ride and she accepted? Unthoughout theories but it's not out of the ordinary for people to stop at a accident when there's bypassers and there's theoretically a lone girl standing there by the side and no cops or ambulances there yet.

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  11. Apparently in NH the AG's office handles all homicides and cold cases. http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/index.htm

    Maura Murray is listed as a cold case victim: http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/documents/20101201-status-report.pdf

    Note that the definition of a cold case requires a homicide or suspected homicide. http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/faq.htm

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  12. Knowing exactly where we determined the last place she was could be valuable information to that person......why can I not shake the feeling that they determined her location AFTER the accident? There has been so much coverage about her movements before the accident - the dorm, the ATM, the liquor store, the drive, then the crash, I cannot shake the feeling that her whereabouts were determined after the accident. For some reason, these whereabouts are not being disclosed because in other quotes above, it sounds as though disclosing information would be detrimental to the investigation. Just thinking outside the box here, but we've all been focused on the crash and before.....could there be something after? Hence the creep? And of course the AFTER is why we are all here. They might have been on to her after the crash and lost her from there. Is it possible?

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  13. the PI that talked to James Renner and worked for the Murray's said that all signs point to one person and he thinks it was a homocide. So going on what he said, there is someone they are pretty sure did something criminal to Maura, but apparently lack evidence? Can the PI talk freely about who he thinks did it, or is he in with LE about keeping the case sealed until it's solved...also, Maura drove, what 3 hours or more? She had to stop to use the bathroom and eat I guess.

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    1. In order for evidence to be permissible in court, and in order not to jinx further leads in the case, investigators/LE have to be very careful about what information they disclose. When there is insufficient evidence to press charges, the last thing you want to do is broadcast what you know.

      -TJ

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  14. I do not believe this case has anything to do with this rag. More likely she put it there so the car would not smoke. She obviously did not want to be stopped by police for a "smocking tail pipe" while she was drinking. Avoiding police was her number one priority, not only for the drinking but because of the previous car accident.When they searched the surrounding areas did they search the woods going the opposite way....could she been confused and gone that way instead?

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    1. Yes -- There were numerous, extensive searches by ground and by helicopter the day after Maura disappeared. Nothing was found, not even a footprint (and there was no fresh snow overnight). Police dogs also turned up nothing; two days after Maura disappeared, a police dog was able to trace Maura's scent up to 100 yards away from the car before losing the scent.

      -TJ

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    2. It had been spoken on Topix that there was a red truck seen on BH road where the scent was lost. Not confirmed but it is out there.

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    3. After Maura left the scene and the police came,it would have been hard to trace foot prints related to her within the inmmediate scene of the accident.Not long ago someone mentioned a "side road" nearby. It is impossible to know if she was aware of it, but since she was avoiding the police and they never saw her as they approached, perhaps is because she was not on the main road by then.It is highly unlikely that she met a killer 10minutes after the accident but it is not at all impossible...Her judgement possibly impaired and the fact that she was possibly very afraid and shaken, could have compelled her to get in someone's car. Well I sure didn't contribute anything of value here. Sorry. This is such a disturbing mistery. I think of her often.My daughter just graduated from college and I saw some strange unpredictable behaviour while she was in college, not only from her but from her friends..so I am not surprised at Maura's behavior...Kids do all sorts of things they would not do if living at home ..and not all of them make sense to adults...

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    4. Anonymous 726, you make a great point. If her car was that bad off and smoking that bad, why make that long of a trip? And even if she took her dads advise and stuffed the rag in her tail pipe, could a car really run for over 3 hours with it stuffed in there?

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  15. I still can't shake the idea that maura was going up there to meet someone. Think about this we know maura pulled out about $240 from the atm that emptied her bank account. Then she went to the liquor store and spent lets estimate $60 after that she filled her gas tank since she had a full tank of gas at the time of the accident. Thats I am guessing around $30. She also has to eat at some point. Her emails to the professors say she would be gone for a week. The money she had left isnt enough for the cheapest motel around for a week. She clearly must not have been concerned about running out of money hence meeting someone.

    MS

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    1. Consider that Maura may have had a credit card, kept for emergencies, that could have been used to cover the gap if she ran out of cash. It's my understanding that searches did not reveal any activity on her accounts or other financial transactions after she went missing. If she was grabbed by a predator following the accident, she never had the opportunity to use a card. No clever killer is going to leave a paper trail. Or, yes, she could have met someone by prearrangement, someone who had some money, but who and where is this mystery man? There doesn't seem to be any hard evidence for him anywhere.

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  16. I think someone at the gas station saw Maura, liked what they saw, and ran and put the rag in her tailpipe, knowing that the car would stall a little down the road. They then proceeded to follow her down the road, but kept their distance.

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  17. With her history of credit card theft, I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume she may have used a stolen card to book a room. That would make tracking her extremely difficult.

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    1. This is not a bad point! Not bad at all!!


      John Avellar

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    2. She was trying to get away undetected we assume since she didnt tell anybody about the trip. With her already being caught once for credit card fraud would she really try to risk that again?

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    3. Although I have not seen any definite, confirmed proof that the "honor code violation" she was kicked out of West Point for was credit card theft, it has been hinted that was the case. That shows she was not deterred by the massive punishment she received & in fact risked it all again for something as simple as pizza

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    4. What if she was buying alcohol to go to a party that she had heard about from somebody at UMass,work, or elsewhere? What if the upsetting phone call at work was a setup from somebody she knew, saying somebody else she knew had passed away? Then maybe somebody was expecting her to be at a certain place at a certain time? Or she was following somebody she knew to a party and they suddenly stopped?
      All I have is what if's I'm just throwing more questions out here.

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  18. Is there a posibility that mMura was fired from her job at UM and that was why she was scorted out and was so upset? The person who scorted her out was one of the last people to see her. This person must know something.

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  19. what happend to the rag and did they do any forenic research on it?

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  20. I am not sure what appeal you are referencing here. I just wandered onto your blog after watching Disappeared and googling Maura. So if this isn't helpful I apologize.

    A deputy Attorney General will be assigned to defend an incarcerated person on appeal or post-conviction relief if they are serving time in a state prison and are indigent. This is because as a state prisoner they fall under state authority, not local.

    Local Public Defenders are assigned to local cases, AG covers state cases.

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  21. I am afraid I posted prematurely. I read further and realized the appeal you were referencing. It IS unusual for an AG to be involved in local Superior court case. It could have been in order to present a more neutral party if it was local authorities. Though if it was state police involved then the AG would naturally represent the State.

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  22. Lavoie said that he heard the father say he told Maura to put the rag up there. Was this verified by the father? Lavoie took possesion of the car from the scene and found the rag way up the tail pipe correct? How would he know to look? He must have been somewhat local to be the tow driver and would be considered trustworthy by Maura.

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    1. According to the 911 dispatch logs that James had downloaded on Feb 10, it notes that the first responding officer to maura's wreck is the one who found the rag in the tailpipe.

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    2. Hmm, I wonder if this is the same officer that was missing for 2 hours after the incident?????

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  23. Is seems a really unlikely coincidence that the girl whose Dad told her to put a rag in her car's tailpipe is also the random girl a stranger chose to put a rag in her tailpipe (in order to harm her). That seems far too bizarre to be true.

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