Friday, February 10, 2012

Third Video


Someone under the name Mr112Dirtbag just posted this video which somehow relates to Maura Murray.


143 comments:

  1. Wtf. Even as a possible hoax.....how can someone be so cruel/immature/mentally disturbed/CREEPY as this? So, is this a new "username" for this weirdo? Oh, and I also think that the family response may have been an attempt to dismiss this guy....in an effort to take away whatever "thrill" he is getting from acting in this manner. However, that could lead to the guy becoming frustrated and more persistent. Yes, this could be a seriously disturbed man who has no real connection to the case. Or it could be someone who DOES have a connection. Someone who is spiraling. Listen, for anyone out there who has researched serial killers or even killers in general--it is not that uncommon for them to begin to purposefully give themselves away. They also tend to have a fixation with "anniversaries." All that to say, at the very least.....the man behind these videos is sick and off balance.

    Yep. This case keeps getting stranger and stranger.

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    1. Yellowed sclera and rosacea nose flare suggests this man should head to his doctor.

      Kidding aside, I almost feel guilty for commenting about this because that's clearly what he's after.

      Still, did anyone else notice that next to the video it said "Read description, Check links" and there is a link to an article about a private investigator that got involved in the murder of Daniel Croteau (presumably by Father Richard Lavigne)in the early 1970s? The article is dated May 19, 2005. The murder took place in Chicopee, which is in the Springfield, MA area. I can't even begin to imagine what the poster imagines is the significance, but he's hoping someone will make some sort of connection, I guess.

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  2. ok well i downloaded it and got the screenshots oh man this creepy

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  3. I wonder, is that zigzag somehow meant to represent the path followed by Maura's car the night of her Haverhill accident? As for the numbers and what I presume to be the artist's self-portrait - I'm clueless. Anyway, I'm leaning more and more toward these videos being the work of a mentally ill troll, and if that's the case, it seems all this new attention is feeding his twisted appetite. I dearly hope Maura is alive and well somewhere - and I'd like to think that if she's aware of this stuff she'll call home. Because I'm afraid all this YouTube play must only be prolonging her loved ones' torture.

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    1. I was thinking the same thing about the zigzag pattern...looks alot like the accident scene...almost the way her car would've moved during the incident???

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  4. How do we even know the same guy is posting the videos? Now that the word is out it could be anyone trying to be a jerk.

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    1. Precisely. I suspect that pondering the meaning of this latest video is a waste of time, and that Fred's sceptical reaction will eventually be vindicated.

      Chris

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  5. James . when I went dirt bag searching the other day , I did see that pic. How do you relate that to Maura? I am not sure now if I saw her name attached to it or it just cane up under dirt bag. I have said dirt bag a lot over the last few days.

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  6. omg i am also part of the facebook maura murray group and some crazy ass woman started harrasing me when i posted the latest video omg people are crazy. she said i have mental problems. wth? i was just sharing the latest on renners blog.i will never do that again. and im never ever gonna visit that page again,

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  7. clearly the bent nose in this crude drawing and the wink at the end clue us to a representation of the person in the laughing video. Thing is, what's the symbol on the left? Do the numbers tie in to anything from the articles that are linked?

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  8. So if you look up "Maura Murray Topix" one of the links brings up the main Franconia NH page. The top three threads are the main MM one, the second is one by Beagle complaining about being investigated, and the third one is about Patrick McCarthy (http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/TD5H3OCK0UAH0R5SH)

    Thing is, the video description on youtube for this new strange video links to information about this Patrick McCarthy also. I'm a bit lost but I'm guessing there's a connection.

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  9. a wink at six seconds in the video

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  10. What the ? James, just tried to view but it appears to be gone? Hope you have a copy again. This mystery keeps deepening. Thanks for all the work. KM

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  11. OMG GUYS. Let me make a suggestion. Never post JAmes Renners links or new info on the Maura Murray facebook page. I posted Renners video links on the page and got accused of being the creeper by some crazy girl People are idiots. Facebook has a feature for sharing links and its an "open" group so I tought I could share links without being harrased by some crazy woman, I am so upset I can't even sleep tonight. Some crazy woman posting my real name and info on faceook. That is so scary. I mean as soon as I posted the link she called me mental and "the creeper". She was defaming my name? What is wrong with people? I'm so upset. ;-( All I did was share Renners link. I wish I had not done that. ugh this sucks. Now that crazy girl has posted my info. I don;t know what to do.

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    1. Block her!! Then she cannot see your name or anything.

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    2. I agree, block her. Also, you can make a report of any personally offensive posts by her about you to Facebook.

      ~ John Green

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    3. There are a cabal of people interested in this case who have come to be called the ducks. These "ducks" believe that they possess all truth and nobility and as such have the right to control all that is written about Maura. As of yet such individuals do not seem to have tried to control human speech, but one suspects that they are working on it even as we speak. Any word that in any way suggests that Maura was not a nearly perfect human being who was killed by a bucolic buffoon can not be entertained. That there is a site such as this where less-than-stellar information about Maura has been documented, is no small affront to their sensibilities. That they want to live in a self-righteous limbo where absolutely nothing can permeate their delusions about Maura is their business. That they expect the rest of us to go along with their fantastical notions is to say the least a bit much.

      John Avellar

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    4. Well said John Av at 628. There is another cabal with an entirely different set of delusions, which includes Beagle, in which Maura's case actually centers on them. ~ John Green

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  12. Yeah, I don't get how people can say something like, "this guy is just a mentally-disturbed loner weirdo typer. Thus, there is no way he killed anybody." Um, that don't make no sense! Still, I would not be surprised if this guy is just looking for attention. But it is true that killers often are a bit "disappointed" that no one knows about this thing they did.

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  13. Be sure to hit the "more" button and read Beagle's characteristic analysis and check out his links. As I said in my other post, I think Beagle probably felt left out here as his insane offered posts were likely not approved. So he is trying to get represented in the middle of this discussion too (as he has dominated and derailed Topix discussions for years) via collateral means. It may be time to ignore him, absent any further indication of his relevance, which - if it exists - the police would be all over. ~ John Green

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    1. Like your way of thinking.

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  14. I'm trying to figure out what the significance of these numbers are. Even if he just a 'sick creepy man'.. it takes a sick creepy, mentally disturbed person to commit a murder. If this is the same man, I'm starting to think this is not being looked at by law enforcement, or else he would (probably) not be making any more videos, but I could be wrong.

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    1. That is a really good point, and contrary to line of reasoning. Good question. Why wouldn't LE get in his face about this? They have the leverage to make him stop, I would think. (See my other posts about potential viable criminal charges). The fact that they have NOT halted him, as you point out, could in fact suggest that LE is ignoring it. Gosh, that would suck. Even if they know he is not implicated, there is leverage to stop this BS and you would think a missing persons case involving someone so young particularly near and dear to them. ~ John Green

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    2. Agreed. I don't know about you John, but I find it hard to believe that they're writing this off already. Granted, some people on here have made a good point..since these videos were on the news..and people are aware... this could be someone different posting this, than the original man who some people are claiming to be 'beagle' but one would think a person's computer could be traced back to them, and they could be questioned from this video by law enforcement... I guess that's what any normal, sane person would think. The only number that makes any sense to me on here is the '8' meaning, it's been 8 years. Other than that, from everyone else I read that is readily available to the public, via internet.. all those other numbers name no sense to me.

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    3. Hey anon 743. The only thing I can figure is that they know him and they have known definitively for some time that he had nothing to do with MM disappearing. To me, Fred's message hints at that with its familiarity certainty. It makes me think the cops called him and said, hey Fred its nothing except for that mentally ill dude on Topix. But still, as we both wonder, why wouldn't LE would want said mentally ill dude to stop out of respect for the family? I dunno. I know that if I were a detective on the case and, even if I knew for sure Beagle had nothing to do with it, I would arrest him for hindering an investigation and I'd get a little Kojak-y on him (I am not actually that old but Kojak's legacy persists). Let the d bag sit in jail for 48 hours waiting for his prelim. As for Mr dbag and dbag, I think much indicates they are the same person, but who knows for sure? As for the 8, could be. But I advise with compassion: beware Beagle numerology, as it might cast spells of pointlessness! : ) Have a nice day. ~ John G.

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  15. Why does that picture look familiar? Can someone Rucan image search on it through Tineye? I'm on mobile atm so am unable to do it myself...

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  16. My first instinct told me this was a hoax, that he was some sick and cruel individual who just enjoyed getting this attention and didn't care how upsetting and heartbreaking this was for Maura's family and friends. Now though, after reading the previous post, i'am starting to wonder. Let's face it, Mr Renner's blog has been gaining momentum over the past number of months and maybe this is what has brought this individual out of the woodwork now, on Maura's eight anniversary. I have been following this case for a number of years and although there is always some extra interest around the anniversay time i do think this year, with all the new information Mr Renner has revealed, that it is different. If, as the previous post says, kilers do have a fixation with anniversaries,maybe, just maybe, all the new interest has caused this person to want to be involved somehow and doing these videos has satisfied that need. Having said all that, still hope Maura is alive somewhere and this is all a big hoax.

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  17. BTW, looks like Beagle is watching this blog:

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/cheyenne-wy/THKTJ9GSJ6D94VG9P

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    1. Unsurprising. This blog surely must be the reason for all these unhelpful, clueless, sinister videos going up every other day now. This to me seems more of a stab at Mr. Renner than it does at the Murrays or anybody else.
      The deranged psychopath is probably sitting at his computer, reading these comments and hoping someone takes him seriously, or else spends hours on end attempting to figure out his would-be cryptic videos. He is spiraling out of control - he's mentally ill and unstable. That's all I think of him.

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    2. Exactly, this is such a waste of time. Again, Show us something real from Maura. Proof you were ever in contact with her like a drivers license, photo, etc. I am not even going to Youtube or google or anywhere wasting time on these games. Becky

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  18. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. Mr Renner, Why did you allow the above threating post to go through?

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  19. Hi everyone. Could the numbers be miles ? From the bottom right..8 miles to the left..27 straight-up, then 1 miles, then 5 miles..

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  20. This Post from Beagle shows a link between This Picture and himself. Click on the video above then click on the link under the video. There is an article. Compare to writings on the following Posts.look at the jan 3 posts

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/bismarck-nd/TUF51V2JM7FRMVD90

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  21. i swear i have seen this drawing somewhere a long time ago. but i dont remember where. i saw it on google images but i cannot remember how i came across. i wish i could remember. its somewhere on the net however. i almost want to say that it was when i was reading a long time ago about the zodiac killer is how i came across that image that beagle is using. but im not sure.

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    1. YES! Bingo! THAT is where I know it from! There was something very similar to this in the Zodiac killer case. I never would have remembered had it not been for you, you're a genius.

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    2. Actually the style strangely reminds me of Picasso, I just can't think which piece. Something like this?
      http://kylinuntitled.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/picasso-dora-maar.jpg

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  22. Did a search of both the face and puzzle together, and separately. Tineye and Google reverse image search showed no results.

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  23. I have 99% positive proof that Beagle was responsible for posting those videos, as well as some tips for you to follow in the future. I will forward the info to you Mr. Renner. For what it's worth, I believe he's sending you on a goose chase, has nothing to do with Maura's disappearance - possibly because you are getting closer than he has ever been to finding an answer to this mystery.

    Brian

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  24. It's creepy, especially the wink at the end. If this is Beagle, he's spiraling out of control and needs serious help.

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  25. Hell with it. I suspect you-know-who has been getting more than his share of attention these days. While I don't have first-hand knowledge of his mental status, and prefer to let LE chase him down if they think he's dangerous or in some way involved in MM's disappearance, it's a waste of time (and cruel) to further humiliate him or pile on. He's made a circus of all of these discussions in recent days, and has been disruptive to JR's investigation.

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  26. I observe that by collateral means Beagle has accomplished here on this blog what he did to the Topix discussions: centered himself and the artifacts of his exalted mental illness as the topic, derailing any meaningful discussion of Maura's disappearance. If LE had even a minor and unprovable hinky notion they could arrest him for hindering an investigation (as I have posted before) unless he confessed involvement, making the intentional suggestions of his videos not false, but then they could arrest him for his involvement. It is a very simple and routine thing for police to subpoena the data from the Google, the relevant service provider and the manufacturer of Beagle's computer to definitively show that he posted these videos. The fact that LE therefore has not arrested him means they have already have information that he was not involved. They clearly shared this with Fred and thus his statement.

    In that context, I would like to strongly suggest to this very astute group on this blog, and to James, that the only meaningful public discussion of Muara's case (this blog) has been hijacked by Beagle using collateral means. I bet he did this specifically because he has tried to post his strange ideas here and his comments have not been approved. So, just as his omnipresent offerings of artifacts of his mental illness have derailed TOpix discussions, his little YouTube game is now derailing this one.

    We should ignore him. If he is relevant to the case at all, the police have what they need to at least detain him for a while and get in his face. If something else is found that implicates him, we can chew on it when that happens. But discussion of these videos is waste of time invested in a sensationalist act but an a_____ named Beagle to insert himself in the middle of MM discussions - as he has for years - regardless of how much he hinders the substances of those discussion and/or how cruel he is toward the Murrays.

    I think we should move on. Beagle is irrelevant. If I am wrong about that, his days of freedom grow short as he has given the police a way to interrogate the shit out of him for a few days and even get search warrants. But I bet they already know he is not involved. He's irrelevant. We should ignore him.

    ~ John Green

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    1. Agreed, John. I too confess myself having been drawn into the psychotic, never-ending goose chase that Mr. Beagle (or however he wishes to call himself) has led us on. But I also believe, much like you do, that his fifteen minutes of fame have passed, and we should steer back into the familiar waters of fact (rather than fiction) and speculations that have some basis in reality. Mr. Beagle has led us nowhere.
      On that note, I also encourage you, Mr. Green, not to attempt to engage him in any way on Topix or elsewhere, for I believe (and I might, naturally, be wrong, mind you) that this particular reaction was the one he was hoping for and has ultimately gotten.
      Also, I encourage Mr. Renner to revert to the posting of content quite unrelated to these unfortunate events of the past few days, go back to the route which he has been working so hard to establish (or rethink it in light of the recent events, either way) and not give the narcissist (and of this I am quite certain - the man is a pure narcissist) any more thrill from witnessing the impact of his misguided actions.
      Here's to hoping Maura is found one of these days - that this all terrible ordeal come unraveled, and we all forget that people such as "Beagle" ever existed (for as irrelevant as they truly are).

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    2. He hasn't derailed Topix. He is a fixture there, and until he garnered the hysterical reactions YOU and others fed him in response to a few vids, he knows his place.
      YOU were the one name-calling and reacting to "how cruel he is toward the Murrays."
      Today, you "think we should move one."
      I suggest you be less reactive and more thoughtful and rational at round one since you constantly have so much to say.

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    3. Lex, that is good advice; my own advice. I am going to ignore him and Topix. I certainly don't want to feed his delusions anymore. His cruelty upset me.

      Anon at 1:18 - "he was cruel toward the Murrays" is not hysterical. Hysterical means derived from extreme emotion. (Did you know that? Seriously, look it up.) I just stated a fact. It also is not name calling. It is an accurate characterization. His actions were in fact a cruel thing to do and both they and his writing reflect mental illness. I mean, the sky is blue also.

      So what do you think? Do you think posting those videos was a kind thing to do? Was it cool? Was it funny? Do you admire him for doing it? Do you think he is leaving clues to help the investigation? I'd like to hear your views and read their substantiation.

      Also, you seem to imply that there is a contradiction about being offended in the immediate aftermath of his cruel actions, but then deciding later to ignore him and move on. At first blush, I don't think that suggestion stands up to minimum critical thought. It is a normal reaction pattern. Like, for instance, suppose you saw someone torturing a kitten. Your initial instincts might be sharp and ready to act, but as you stepped away from the situation you might see how sick that person was and realize that the best thing you can do is just not pay attention, for there always be sick people doing mean things in the world. So, could I ask you to kindly clarify where you see a contradiction in my attitude? It would be much appreciated.

      In any case, I do agree that the on thing I do need to do is be more thoughtful. That's the one thing my posts really lack is thoughtfulness. I will try to model your even keel and deep substance going forward. Thank you for advice.

      ~ John Green

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    4. Your endless commentary, anxiety and hysteria about this entire subject, and especially about this dude are unwarranted. Others before you have observed his behaviors, questioned his attention seeking behaviors, and are satisfied he is likely "harmless", to quote a PI.
      If Renner saw fit to pass along the videos to authorities then let them handle it.
      I think you've played this out for much more than it deserves. Give it a rest.

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    5. Gosh, not sure why are you are so upset, but you are not saying anything about the case and did not answer any of my questions. So I don't have anything to say. I think you should ignore my posts though. If you signed yours, I would be happy to not comment on any of yours if that would make you feel better, but you don't so I can't. ~ John Green

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    6. Also, I think your criticisms of my posts don't match up with what I posted. They are cruel and he is a non-seuqitur to the case. So chill dude, sorry (kind of) that I ruined your day. ~ John Green

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  27. But what is he is involved? maybe he is dying (of cancer or something like that), and he wants us all to know what he did, or what he knows, before he passes away

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  28. I am sure this picture is something he creasted, just like this one probably is, from an old blog of his: http://storagehead.blogspot.com/

    Brian

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    1. Interesting thought Brian. I am just thinking that the police have cleared him or they would use this incident to get after him. A conviction might not come from it, but they could arrest and hold him for a couple days, and get search warrants if they needed to. (I have posted elsewhere about that). My read is that Fred already knows that they cleared this dude and he had nothing to do with it. I kind of wish, if true, LE would just state that. I think that is what Fred was doing and LE probably communicated with him about the videos, as well as about him a long time ago. But I could be wrong. I was as wrong as roger wrong with capital R, for instance, in initially thinking the dude in the videos disguised, before the torrent of revelations James came up with about who he is. ~ John Green

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  29. On Tuesday, January 10, 2012 a sketch of the Connecticut
    Valley Killer was posted on this blog. This description was
    given by Jane Boroski, who in 1988 survived a botched
    attempt on her life in or near Swanzey, NH. People, please
    look closely between this 1988 sketch and the "winking eye"
    picture posted today. The straight horizontal mouth, the
    angled , long nose, the horizontal furrows(creases) on the
    forehead, and the squareness of the face in general. The
    straightness and squareness features are NOT common in most
    human faces. Most likely the 1988 killer is still alive. I
    do not think that he killed Maura, but I'm sure he reads this
    blog. No one has caught him in 24 years so he is just playing
    with us. In his psychopathic mind, he has won and he is safe.
    He can afford to play. Both Maura's killer and the CV killer
    are depraved psychopaths and very, very dangerous. Are they
    the same person? I do not think so, but what do I know.

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    1. This does not sound like the man than Jane Baroski identified as her attacker at the news conference in NH with the private investigator from from Florida. He was Michael Nicholou who killed two family members and himself a few years ago. I never thought that identification was very convincing so you could be correct. One of the victims of the CV killer from Ginsburg's book from New London NH is not one of his victims in all probability. The bottom line is that the CV killer is almost certainly not involved in Maura's disappearance. If it was a murder, this would seem to be a crime of opportunity.

      MDW

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    2. I do not think that Michael Nicholaou was the one who attacked
      Jane Boronski. She stated that he accused her of beating up his
      girlfriend. I am almost positive that he and his wife had
      gotten back together and were living together in August 1988. He
      obviously did not have a girlfriend. He had a wife.

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    3. Does anyone know where Michael Nicholaou was on February 9, 2004? He was reportedly living in Georgia, but he was undaunted by long road trips and had family and friends in New England. He was a fearless killer and could have been brazen enough to follow Maura from I-91. Nicholaou's common law wife, Michelle Marie Ashley, mysteriously vanished in Devember, 1988. her body was never found.

      Derek

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    4. Boroski only ID'd Nicholau at the persistence of the private investigator, who had already decided Nicholau was guilty of every single unsolved serial murder case on the Eastern Seaboard. At the time of the CT River Valley Killings, Nicholau was living in Virginia. The distribution of those killings suggested someone local, specifically a killer who had an intimate knowledge of Claremont and the surrounding environs. There's no evidence that Nicholau spent any time in Claremont. The fact that similar murders and disappearances are still occurring in that area make a convincing case that the Valley Killer is still alive and somewhat active.

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    5. It is interesting that you mention Swanzey, NH. Just today I came up with Swanzey, NH while trying to figure out the meaning of the numbers in the face drawing. The numbers are 1, 5, 27, and 8. If you think of a list of numbers from 0 to 9 and you remove the numbers 1, 2, 5, 7, and 8 from them, that leaves you with 0, 3, 4, 6, 9. 03469 is the zip-code for Swanzey, NH. - Ronald Sandberg

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  30. I just reread your post Lex. I really agree with it and especially the sentiments it launched at the end. Thanks. ~ John G.

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    1. You're welcome, John. I merely reached the same conclusion as you at around the same time - at first I was uneasy about this man, then just plain angry that any human being could seek to cause so much pain to an already grieving family - and now I feel it's time take the only sensible way out - forget about this insanity and move on to aiding the investigation in whichever way we can (and not by way of criptic, meaningless clues, rather than by offering, if nothing, any fresh ideas that come to us). The fact of the matter is that Maura is out there. And in Maura's case "out there" is merely "waiting to be found".

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    2. I hope you are right Lex. I was very excited because that topix post explained so many knowns. I really wish someone would report here having seen the manager at Curves in Toronto once.

      As for the - to me - natural progression of your attitude toward the videos, I think you should exercise some caution. As recently pointed out to me, that is unacceptable. You must choose one attitude change it. : ) ~ John

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  31. On a completely unrelated note, I have recently thought of two topics that perhaps haven't gotten much play and was wondering what others thought. I hopefully have all the facts correct here, but wasn't it the case that Maura crashed with a full tank of gas? Also, didn't her timeline that evening allow for something like 30-60 minutes of "missing" time, where she may have stopped or slowed and still reached the crash site on time? I am no car expert, but would her car troubles have led to a noisy car? I wonder if we are paying enough attention to the stretch of her journey after she presumably left I-91 (at exit 17, RTE 302?) up until she crashed. I assume at the very least she stopped for gas at this point. If her credit card statements show no purchase, then she must have encountered someone to pay cash. What if once she left the highway she noticed her car was quite noisy. If already intoxicated she perhaps worried that she could be pulled over for the noisy car. Could it be possible her "missing time" was spent at a gas station trying to assess a car problem? Could someone have assisted her with the intent of following behind unbeknownst? Is that where the rag may have been stuffed? Did someone purposely advise her that Rte 112 was the best way to go, knowing full well that she would be eventually travelling down some pretty dark and quiet roads? Maybe she was hungry and stopped somewhere for a snack? I have no idea how many gas stations are along that route but I wonder how much investigating was done on that point.
    Also, regarding her crash, am I understanding correctly that her car veered entirely across the oncoming lane of traffic and sheared off snow from a bank on the left hand side of the road before spinning the car around and into the tree on the right side? If this is the case, then the phrase I have heard "failed to negotiate a turn" really doesn't do this justice. If someone was impaired and failed to negotiate this turn, they wouldn't have turned enough to the left around this sharp curve and maybe swiped the right hand side of the road with the right side of the car. In this case, this looks more like she was either completely drunk, fell asleep, hit an ice patch, or had a mechanical issue (stalling due to rag?) in order to veer all the way across the oncoming lane and first hit a snow bank on the opposite side of the road.

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    1. Anon @ 7:50. Interesting, thanks for the post. I did not know her tank was full. Where did that fact come from? I agree it's significant. If nothing else, it could point to a few gas stations, one of which she must have visited.

      I was one who posted analysis about the slack time in her trip. I took several passes & landed on 35-50 minutes..

      The following is what I gathered about the accident's dynamics. I welcome corrections or counter interpretations. The curve is sharp but not nearly 90 degrees & not crazy sharp. It looks sharper on a map due to scale. You are coming down a slight hill as you approach it. There is a grove of trees dead ahead, a little to the left, lining the eastbound lane, beginning as the curve straightens out. The tree she hit is not on either edge of the grove, but it is the closest to the road. It sits at a point where the curve is straightening out. Anon, if you have not seen it already, this video I'm sure will only stir further your reasoning on this topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvH41yylgq8

      I could not agree more with you that the term "failed to negotiate" is a pretty forgiving euphemism. Your analysis dead on correct. Building on it: the damage is on the LEFT front of the car. That strongly implies that she drove pretty much straight into a tree. She did not glance off it on the right side, as the placement of the tree - relatively close to the road compared to the other trees - would make more explicable. Furthermore, as you note, she wound up facing west in the east bound land. (I SINCERELY apologize by the way; I HAVE SAID INCORRECTLY ELSEWHERE as west in the westbound lane.) So yes, she hit hard. Consider: had she hit on the right front, you could figure that a transfer of energy just bounced her left into the road, and maybe a reflexive turn of the steering wheel hard left continued spinning the Saturn around. But having hit it on the LEFT front means the Saturn bounced backward against its original energy of motion. This because had it been a glancing hit on the left front, she would have gone right and immediately hit more trees and/or at a minimum come to a stop on the eastbound shoulder. To get clearance enough to spin, the car had to bounce back at least a little. So there was a transfer of enough energy to bounce the car straight back (meaning a direct hit) and then spin it around leave it back out in the eastbound lane. This also suggests that nobody ever hit the breaks. Passed out drunk could explain that. So could a staged accident (as the "ring of truth" Topix post said), in which nobody was in the car and they whipped it off a tow (which it did not say, but which I speculate). Maybe also that is consistent with a stall (which can make a car harder to steer and stop and confuse the driver by surprise, particularly if accompanied by a backfire). And a stall reminds of that confounding rag in the tailpipe. But I don't put much stock in the ice patch concept. I believe Scarinza or the tow driver or someone said the road was clear. Moreover, if you hit ice, you either toggle the breaks like you are supposed to or reflexively jam on them. Either way, on impact, with breaks engaged, I don't think you bounce backward. You come to rest at or near the point of impact.

      I would love to hear a physicist take this on, particularly one expertise in car crashes. I'd love to hear anyone continue thinking it through.

      Incidentally, I just looked again at the Hadley accident report: through the T intersection and into a guard rail and snow bank. So, in the course of a few days, Maura twice had ... NOT fender bender oooops type accidents .... but instead drove STRAIGHT INTO stationary objects. $8k damage is a lot. Evidence that also was a pretty hard hit? Drinking a lot and falling asleep at the wheel? The first accident suggested a way to leave a message when she decided to run?

      ~John Green

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    2. The Hadley accident has always perplexed me. Given what we now know about Maura's drinking habits I think it's fairly safe to assume that she had been drinking at the dorm party, so had to be drunk when she had the accident. How come she wasn't breathalysed? There had to be a smell of alcohol and her demeanour was surely a bit erratic. Had she suffered a head injury that would explain her behaviour but by all accounts she was uninjured so what did the police think was wrong with her? I don't know if Mr Renner has been able to find out why she wasn't breathalysed or if is documented anywhere.

      Delete
    3. John, please see my latest message elsewhere on this blog. I think it's possible she was trying to avoid an oncoming vehicle.

      Chris

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    4. Anon @ 11;16 - Perplexed I am by that too. I have a younger friend who is very pretty who was allowed to walk from a DUI accident by a male cop. I think it happens sometimes.

      Chris - I will check it out although tracking down message by folks is hard to do here. From the single line description here it sounds completely viable. And then lets say oncoming car turns around and drives past and sees a pretty girl and goes up a little and stop about where her scent disappeared and you know she'd drunk and now she's gonna get a DUI and .... Possible.

      ~ John Green

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    5. I work at a chiropractor's office in MA. We had a case where a young women hit a guard rail, the car flipped, and she woke up 3 days later in the hospital with no memory. At the hospital they took blood tests. When her auto insurance had the proof she was drunk they denied all her coverage and she had to pay out of pocket for her car accident. If Maura was drunk and there was evidence it could be possible that she would be responsible depending on the insurance. The cop knowing that may have decided to pity a poor college student and take no breathalyzer so that she would not have an $8K debt. It is also legal in MA to say no to a breathalyzer, which is normally followed by an overnight in jail. But if you are drunk you would say no because your case would be dismissed for no evidence when you go to court. The cop may have let her go when she said no because he did not want to have such a young women spend the night in jail. Her dad was close by so the cop probably decided to bring her there as a safe place for her to go.

      Delete
    6. Anon 717 ... very helpful info. I think you are dead on right about how it could have gone down and the motives of the officer, but your specific knowledge is better than my prior speculation.

      As to the saying no to a breathalyzer, I think it is true that it gets you a night in jail. But in most states, I think it also means an on the spot on year suspension (the officer being authorized by statute to seize your license). I know this is true in many states, but I don't know that it is true in MA. The idea is that you cannot use your right to decline the search of your breath as a way to avoid being taken off the road. In fact, in the end, I think some of the penalties for refusal wind up being stiffer, particularly for a first offender. So I think of the two possibilities, the officer's compassion may be the better explanation.

      One final note: lots of drinking can - as is well known - can create a tolerance, more in the the drinker, most so on the surface and in terms of behaviors, as opposed to actual measurable impairment of judgment. Some slip through DUIs on this basis too, even when they are pretty drunk, particularly after a fender bender where they are out of the car by the time the police gets there, the smell of alcohol therefore is not obviously rushing out the just opened window at them and the officer faces more paper work to establish that the driver was actually driving the car.

      ~ John Green

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    7. Thanks for that Mr Green. I am the original poster with the query about the Hadley accident. Think you are probably right and maybe it was a mixture of the officer's compassion and Maura being able to act as if she was sober.
      ~MF

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  32. out of all this "noise" that has surrounded the eighth anniversary of maura's disappearance, the one thing that shouldn't be ignored is the fact that someone made a video with an apparent bretton woods receipt dated two days after she was last seen in that same general area. it may ultimately be nothing, but that can't be determined without knowing who did it and why.

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  33. The fact there was a rag in her car is significant. I believe there was a gas station not far from the WB. I remember seeing it in the video on you tube titled something like "MM's final drive".
    If someone did put the rag in there at that gas station (or roadside store) then her stalling at the corner makes sense.
    The EMT stated that he believed that the car stalled and that was the reason MM "failed to negotiate the turn". What I meant by that was she could have looked down at the dash or something like that causing the car to veer left into the bank.

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    1. I´ve been following this case for a number of years, and I seem to recall that Maura apparently didn´t stop for gas at the Stage Stop Store on Rte 112 in Swiftwater village, a mile or two to the west of the WB curve where the Saturn was found.
      I can´t back this up with any links or similar, but over the years it has been hinted that Maura is unlikely to have filled her car up at the SSS in Swiftwater.
      However, if you check out Google Maps/Streetviews there are several gas stations along US 302 in Woodsville and also immediately across the Connecticut River/NH-VT state line to the west of Woodsville.
      Most likely, Maura did fill her car up at one of these gas stations, although any LE information regarding this seems to be a closely guarded "secret" and has never, to my knowledge, been publicly released.
      Regarding the perplexing rag in the tailpipe, it was by all accounts apparently quite clean and shoved quite some way into the tailpipe when it was dicovered.
      It is unlikely to have remained that clean (and to have remained in the tailpipe at all) if someone had shoved the rag into the tailpipe when/if Maura filled her cap up somewhere in Woodsville or environs. The distance from there to the WB curve is just too long for that to have been possible.
      That rag is truly a riddle to figure out.

      Delete
  34. I have another theory, but this one is not based on the Kansas City Shuffle. If you want to read about that, go to Mr. Renner's blog post on whether Maura Murray went to Ireland.
    This theory is based on a scientific principle called Inertia. Inertia says that a body in motion stays in motion. So you have Maura hitting that snowbank causing the airbags to go off and hit her head on the windshield which is odd to begin with because airbags are there to prevent that, especially when you consider the curve was only 20 mph. This is how it is presented in the ID program. So the conclusion you could come to is that she was not wearing her seatbelt.
    Then there is the other items in her car, the other things that have to stop when the car stops along with Maura. Whenever I have had to stop suddenly my belongings like my bookbag usually end up in the passenger side well area where you put your feet. So the strange thing to me is not that there is a box of wine(damaged) sitting in the backseat of Maura's car. The strange thing is that the box of wine is sitting on the backseat at all.

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    1. I think if Maura's head had hit the windshield creating the spider crack: (1) she would not have been conscious afterward, (2) she would have suffered torso injuries from the steering wheel, (3) she might have suffered neck injuries, and (4) the airbags did not deploy as they were supposed to, i.e., in time to prevent injury. It is much more plausible to suppose that the crack is from the energy of impact, which often happens and which is more likely if there is a preexisting small crack already there. Some have said that the crack was from an impact from the inside, but I have not seen evidence of that and the picture of the crack (from the pics taken of the car at Trrop F) don't necessarily say that to me. But even if there is an outward indenture of the window from the inside, for the above reaons I don't think it came from Maura's head. Instead, something with sufficient mass had to hit from the inside and then the force of the accident's energy being thrown backward into the car exacerbated the windshield damage. I believe I have also heard somewhere (but I am not sure about this at all) that particularly a number of years ago, the force of airbags sometimes cracked windows. To deploy quickly, they come out with high energies to the point where people have been injured by them. I mean, I don't know, but this is my reasoning that Maura's head did not cause that crack in the windshield. ~ John Green

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  35. In case you have not figured it out, the question is this:

    Why would anyone take a damaged leaking box of wine and puts it on their backseat AFTER they crash their car?

    ReplyDelete
  36. @ Anonymous 9:41pm There is a gas station within walking distance of the site of the accident. It is possible that someone may have placed the rag in at the gas station. However, I believe the rag was from an emergency roadside kit which was in Maura's trunk. If that's true then someone would have had access to her trunk at the gas station, pull the rag out and stuff it into the tailpipe, all without Maura noticing. Also, the gas station is not a busy one, whoever was working that night would have noticed if a young stranger had come in and then had car trouble while still at the station.

    Although I think we can all agree Maura was not thinking logically at this point Maura would have had to drive through a much more populated town (probably Woodsville) I think it's much more likely she got gas in that town rather than the gas station so close to the crash site.

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    1. Hey anon 10:49, which direction and on what road is the gas station? I have been to the site twice but I must have completely missed it. Particularly if lies westbound on 112 from the crash site, that is big.

      Thanks ~ John G.

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    2. Hey, I said something contrary to your assertion that the gas station was nearby. I apologize. I was wrong. There is a gas station on 112. It shows up at 4:35 of the MM last trip video. I estimate that it is 1.2 miles from the crash site. ~ John Green

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  37. He has posted two more videos. Both are innocuous cartoons drawings. One has cryptic message about posters on Topix. The other a poem. One also has a link to guidelines for getting married in NH.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Mr112dirtbag

    ~ John Green

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  38. I hear you anon at 9:41. Good points. My recollection is that the nearest gas station is not on 112 (and you do not see on in the video, unless I just missed it). Instead, it is about 5 miles back: 3.5 west on 112, and then in a ways on 302 toward Woodsville. But your point remains and is well taken.

    The stall theory is sensible to me. A stall accident (with a bounce back off a tree) would look like a tow whip staged accident, I would think. But I do point this out. If it was veer while looking down at the dashboard or something, it was more than a veer. She had to have turned the car enough to hit the left bumper on the tree with the energy of motion hitting pretty head on so she could bounce off and be spun around to face east. That said, one thing that supports your idea is that the tree she hit was closest to the road and so easiest to hit in a veer and the one that would give the least warning to a driver looking down via shoulder rumblings.

    ~ John Green

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    1. Hey, I was wrong. There is a gas station on 112. It shows up at 4:35 of the MM last trip video. I estimate that it is 1.2 miles from the crash site. ~ John Green

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    2. The gas station is 1 mile exactly from the crash site.I drove it yesterday.The intersection rt116 is 5.5 miles away.

      Delete
  39. well, i just saw d bag's latest 2 videos. looks like the dude shot his wad. they are pretty tame. no surprise i guess that he is getting kind of wimpy in the face of all the criticism. they are quickie little kid pictures and a poem, something about somebody being two people on topix and then a link to guidelines for getting married in NH. i think he felt important because he had that ticket - which is probably just doctored or a lucky coincidence - and he is trying to ride. but it appears he has nothing else. in any case his videos are just kind of cute and and harmless and irrelevant so maybe he is just indulging his creativity and forgetting about maura. hope so.

    looking forward to JRs next post ... who knows what awaits next ... what a ride it's been! can't wait to get back to substantive stuff.

    Foster K. Jones

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    1. there is speculation that the second mr112dirtbag is trying to get back at or cast suspicion on 2 or more Topix Franconia posters who allegedly share the same IP address and who post on two different forums on that site, one being the Maura Murray discussion. it is possible that he/she is trying to connect these posters to their real identity by sharing the links to the articles. it is unclear whether the two YouTube accounts stem from the same individual. the reason behind this is unclear. again, purely speculative.

      melda

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    2. possibly WTH or FRMLe both dominate both posts with big agendas.

      Delete
    3. why the passive voice? who is speculating that? i know he suggests it in the caption to one of the videos, but who else? also, if that is his purpose, why not just post a of movie saying it? if he has evidence he needs to give it to the police. if this is some revenge against a topix rival, he's a jerk for posting videos that suggested he knows something about maura. and if is a topix grudge, does it matter? like who cares? the mm topix discussions for the most part are pointless. and btw there is abundant evidence that mr112 and 112 are the dame d bag. it sounds a little like you are defending him? are you? why? are you him? (fkj)

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  40. Has anyone checked the fact that Butch Atwood and John Marrote grew up together in Raynham mass. From raynham

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    1. This is the first notion I´ve ever seen of Mr Atwood and Mr Marotte having grown up together in Raynham,MA.
      May I ask whether you could possibly back this up with something?
      Even if true, I don´t really see how this could possibly have any real influence on Maura´s case, unless you´re kind of suggesting that Mr Atwood and Mr Marotte would have been colluding with each other for some reason, which I would find highly unlikely.
      Still, your assertion, if proven to be true, would none the less be somewhat remarkable.

      Delete
    2. Who is John Marrote, for those of us behind on this possibility relevant connection?

      ~ John Green

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    3. He saw the accident from his home. He lives across from MR Atwood

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    4. I doubt this is true. Marotte looked quite a bit older than the SBD. They were never considered a POI as far as I know.

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  41. I've followed this case for several years, and the one thing I just can't wrap my mind around is why Maura left the accident site on foot on such a cold, dark night. She had ample oppurtunity with the bus driver for help and a chance to possibly seek shelter in his house until the cops came. Just a strange action by her to take off into the darkness, drunk, and possibly hurt. I don't understand this at all.

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    1. If Maura was had been drinking, she wouldn't have wanted to get up close and personal with either the bus driver or any cops. Remember, too, that alcohol impairs not only motor skills but judgment. She was young, strong, fit and an experienced runner. She may have overestimated her ability to go quite a long distance, well away from the accident scene, to a landline phone, for example, where she could call someone without its appearing on the cell phone bill that Billy and his mother would see. Or maybe she succeeded in doing just that and got a ride from someone--maybe someone she knew, or maybe Mr. Wrong--at some point. She'd had a pretty rough few days, she may have been drunk, she may have hit her head on the windshield--I think her judgment was way out of whack. I don't think it's a mystery why she fled the scene, just very bad judgment, like a lot of other choices she'd made in the recent past.

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  42. Indeed, 6:01. She definitely didn't run anywhere, they would've found the body by now. In my opinion, she had to have been picked up, which makes me wonder if we would've found her MUCH, much earlier if she just ran or anything.

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  43. I need some clarification. Is the "creep" in the sicko videos called
    "The Beagle"? Also, is "The Beagle" and "Mr112Dirtbag" the same person?
    Thanks.

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    1. The first 2 videos were posted by someone called 112dirtbag (his YouTube name). He quickly took them down when James was able to post his profile picture here and it became obvious that he was the poster who has been filling up Topix with inane and at time depraved nonsense for years, derailing all reasonable discussion, rendering the forums almost meaningless. That poster is often known as Beagle, although he events other names and praises himself with them on Topix. He then set up a new account "mr112dirtbag," but so that there was no picture of him that could be associated with the count. Thus, Beagle and both d bags are the same person. Beagle also assumes various other names and praises his own posts on Topix. He has, I think, linked a few through into this blog, but it is hard from him to get stuff through to here because he writes such insane stuff (e.g., Amherst researchers killed Maura to harvest her ovaries). His real name was posted on here for a little while but it was taken down. Most people know who he is. Fred's statement about him is accurate. I personally feel that he is jealous of James and it crushes him that his insane posts don't get approved for posting here (as they should not), so he is posting provacative things on Youtube because he likes to watch the discussion here about him. It is interesting to me that Scott Peck - author of "The Road Less Travelled" - in his final book, called "People of the Lie" defined evil as a therapeutically treatable problem that involved people refusing to acknowledge the truth all around them, out f an unreasonable fear of that truth, regardless of the cost to himself and others. It strikes me that this very sick person is touched with this kind of evil when you consider the harm and hurt he willingly causes to elevate himself insistently to the center of any MM discussion, regardless of how incredibly derailing he is to those discussion, regardless of how insane and ignorant of facts his ideas are and regardless of the cruelty he shows toward Maura's family friends. Beagle is a combination of a very sick and very bad man. ~ John Green

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  44. I think this case like this blog is going to go on forever. What really happened to Maura Murray is a mystery that none of us knows anything about.

    All the theories are just that, theories. They are all bs because they are not supported by any evidence. I could tell you that I think it is going to rain next thursday but I do not know that for sure. I do wonder about that wine box, how it could just be sitting there on the backseat after the accident? Sometimes I think maybe she got it from the trunk. I also wonder about the time frame, a few people pointing out that she has about 45-hour missing. That seemed relatively easy to figure out. If you are a believer in the runaway scenario, maybe she was waiting for it to get dark? That is why I wondered if either of the two people who saw her car, the school bus driver or other person, saw the car with the lights on? If you believe she was murdered, then maybe she stopped to grab a bite.

    I understand the father's frustration. As long as it remains a missing persons case, there is going to be alot of unknowns, even when it seems like police are treating it as more than a missing person's case in not wanting to release info. You also have to understand the way cops think too. They deal with many drunk driver cases. They do not arrive on the scene and say, "You know, I bet this is a clever staged runaway perpetuated by a criminal mastermind." And they do not automatically assume the person is murdered either.

    The real question here is based on two different scenerios: 1. Why would anyone, if it was a runaway, go to all the trouble of staging this? Plus she still has to get away from the car, or 2. How could someone, if it was kidnapping murder, arrive, grab her, and take her away in such a short time frame?

    What is even more perplexing is that you then come to the question of where in the world was she driving to that was so darn important as to not wait another week? I can definitely understand why she is considered an enigma.

    One time I tried to become a police officer. I did not pass my written assessment. They told me I think way too much and that I needed to stop watching t.v. Some people might get offended but really they were right. Cases like this are interesting for one reason: They are all about imagination because that is all that is left. Anything that is real disappeared along with Maura Murray.

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    1. True, people are all throwing out theories. But just because evidence has not been found/discovered, does not mean that it does not exist. Also, many cold cases have been solved. A lot of the time a person will finally (for whatever reason) come forward with information they have had all along.

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  45. This is off topic to the post, but I just remembered something very odd on my last summer vacation. I was in Ocean City, Maryland at a Dough Roller (Popular breakfast/lunch/dinner restaurant in that area) and the waiter waiting tables ahead of me looked VERY familiar to Maura. I wanted to ask her a question out of curiosity, but I was completely clueless on what to ask her. I go there every year. This summer if I see her again, how should I confront her? I need SOMETHING to ask her to be able to trigger an actual conversation. Any tips would be appreciated. EDIT: I remember her hair being slightly dyed s streak of blonde in the front if I remember correctly. The face was so similar to Maura's, though.

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  46. John Green: Don't worry about looking for my other message. It didn't say a lot more. I just think avoiding an oncoming vehicle is one of the few good explanations for hitting the inside of a curve. If you keep driving straight due to inattention, you hit the outside. If you slide on ice, you hit the outside. Having studied a lot of physics, I could go into scientific explanations for why it's hard to hit the inside of a bend, but the simplest anology is to say that it's like trying to jump upwards out of a window. Everything's working against you. That is, unless the snowbank was actually protruding into the road (it would be helpful to see pictures from that year, but I haven't heard that any exist). Of course, the oncoming vehicle could have strayed onto Maura's side of the road because it was out of control; that could happen easily.

    Chris

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    1. Chris, I have been saying the same thing on many occasions that she wouldn't have clipped the corner where the westmans live if she was going eastbound.The curve turn sharply left and the car should slide to the right unless it was an avoidance of an on coming car as you say.

      Delete
    2. It could be as simple as the car stalled and got pulled to the left either by itself or by applying the brake too quickly.
      Is there any record from the SBD's conversation with MM? Did he ask her "what happened"? That would have been my second question right after "are you ok".
      If so maybe she would have mentioned the cause of the accident.

      Delete
    3. I have been follwing Maura´s case for quite some time, and as far as I know there are no records of any such conversation between the SBD/Mr Atwood and Maura.
      The cause of the accident has, I believe, never been definitely ascertained, and the SBD never to my knowledge indicated any knowledge of this based on his brief conversation with Maura at her car.

      Delete
    4. I heat that Chris and it makes sense to me. It certainly fits. I point out that the tree she hit is out close to the road, and a little closer than the surrounding trees, but I see your point about hitting the inside of a bend. You really have to do something special to do more than glance off it, and that thus may logically mean the damage had to be on the left. I also can can see how the oncoming surprise vehicle coming into her lane provides a way for doing. I interpolate that we agree that hard damage left and care reversed on energy of collision suggests a much harder hit than glancing damage right? Am I following you? In any case, many thanks for the thoughtful clarification. ~ John G.

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  47. OK -- YouTube user "Mr112dirtbag" just posted a new video one hour ago:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4cl3hCCH24

    I'm copying and pasting his video description below.

    -TJ

    ===============
    Was Butch Atwood able to reliably indenitfy Maura Murray as the person at the Saturn crash scene in Haverhill New Hampshire? It was dark, around 7:30 in the evening. Police have said Murray was wearing a jacket and jeans. This description would apply to thousands upon thousands of females approximately Murray's age, general appearance and size. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that Murray was in fact at the Haverill site where she is said to have crashed her 1996 Saturn. Unless there was something else about her that Atwood noticed as particularly identifying, such as a necklace that Atwood could have seen in the dark. Or a black eye.

    However, there this from

    http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/12/10376629-witness-error-how-mind-tricks-can-put-the-innocent-behind-bars

    Researchers have long studied how people create memories, how that works in witness identification and then how that information is used by prosecutors at trial.

    "People often think that memory works like a videotape and in fact it's nothing like a videotape," said Newirth. "That sort of highlights both the problem of how memories are made, but also how people become convinced of the correctness of their memories."

    A witness' perception of a crime can be affected by lighting, distance, stress and the race of the alleged perpetrator -- especially if it is different than their own, Newirth said. They also can be influenced by the suggestions of law enforcement and other witnesses as they try to fill in the gaps in their memory of that event, she said.

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  48. A new video posted about an hour ago. This one talks about Butch Atwood and who he really saw at the crash site. And about Maura having a black eye.

    I know people have been talking about the person posting just being crazy but I have to say that I find these videos very intriquing and I hope that the authorities are taking them seriously.

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    1. John Healy thought the school bus driver, Butch Atwood, was a bold-faced liar. I watched John Healy being interviewed on the news last week and he seems comes across as the most sane, sincere person in this entire investigation.

      Where is Mr. Atwood? Some sources say he is deceased but his obituary is curiously devoid of details about his life. Is he alive and living under the radar? Did he commit suicide or die of natural causes? It seems that whenever people ask too many questions over at Topix Franconia about who murdered Maura Murray the only answers forthcoming are "Poor school bus driver, he was so wrongly maligned!" Hopefully you, Mr. Renner and Mr. Healy can get to the bottom of all of this!

      I agree with you Anom @ 10:35 PM. The YouTube poster is only trying to offer some theories after having been rebuked by law enforcement and certain posters on Topix. It may seem as if the video maker is crazy, but MR112dirtbag (the second one) is trying to send clues about why there might be a deliberate cover up by some people to move people away from the school bus driver and his information. I'm not saying he's complicit in this girl's disappearance, just that he might have been steered into changing the details of what he witnessed on February 9, 2004.

      Wendie

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    2. So it's like the Beatles, when Paul McCartney died, you mean? And for some reason then they made albums with clues that Paul was dead? Like Beagle is dropping hints. Well, Paul was never dead. And Beagle never mattered. And Beagle = d bag = mr d bag = sad man exalting the artifacts of his mental illness, not dropping clues or doing anything that matters at all.

      Delete
    3. Wendie,
      Yes, the school bus driver (SBD) certainly seems to have changed his witness statements a good many times, for whatever reason(s).
      I don´t think that he had anything to do with Maura´s vanishing, but it´s none the less somewhat remarkable.
      Apparently, he was for some time employed in some kind of non-LE capacity at the Taunton, MA, police department.
      Of course, being a school bus driver means having to pass a good deal of background checks and vetting, so I feel reasonably certain that the SBD just tried to help out as much as he could.
      Whether someone later pressured him into changing his witness statements is another matter entirely.

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  49. I think that the numbers and zig-zag figure in this video could possibly correspond to a rough street map and numbers of miles. (That was my first instinct.) What a horrible, crazy loon to post videos like this -- I think that law enforcement SHOULD take this very seriously, because this is a red flag.

    -TJ

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  50. Obviously the numbers are meant to be clues (whether real or not) that should be deciphered and can shed some light on the case.
    For example:
    1- could stand for one victim (Maura) or 1 killer
    5- hours it took her to get to the site of the accident
    27- not sure yet...
    8- stands for 8 year anniversary.

    Just trying to think outside the box.

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    1. It did not take her 5 hours to get to the site. At most 4, probably more like 3:30.

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  51. this guy needs to be looked at. Maybe he is harmless, but since there are no solid leads the public knows of, it couldn't hurt. That being said, he is quite the scumbag for playing on people's emotions on such a tragic case. If one needs attention that bad, maybe one should seek friendships outside of the internet. Human contact cures alot of problems. Friends are good for the soul.

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  52. Interesting that the entire Topix thread of some 11,000 plus posts - went POOF a few minutes ago (this has occured in the past a few times as well).

    Oh well, clean slate and all that.

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  53. I've come to the conclusion that even if this guy didn't have anything to do with Maura's disappearance, he certainly wishes he did. That makes him a disturbed and potentially dangerous individual who belongs on the radar of law enforcement.

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    1. Good point. How nice it would be to know he got arrested, if only as a possible spiritual wake up call to him to get help. ~ John Green

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  54. Interesting side-note, as much as I'd like to put the goddamn Beagle videos to rest because frankly they're just pissing me off. His (Beagle's) email address is storagehead@gmail.com. I Googled "storagehead" last week and found a couple telling links - there were 21+ pages worth. Now that search only returns less than a page full. Something weird is happening. I've been Internet investigating - mostly successfully - for 11+ years and have never seen anything like that happen so quickly.

    Brian

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    1. This is interesting Brian. Is he pulling his stuff down? Doesn't it take a while for all the webcrawlers to update google so that stuff that someone is taking down sometimes remains up a while as dead links? Does this suggest anything to you? Please expand, interested to hear more of what you think about this. ~ John Green

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    2. I just now did not get a single hit on that search term (his email). John G.

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    3. Here might be some insight. Google just recently updated page ranks (PR) in the last week or so. They have a scale from 0 to 10. 10 is the highest or best, and 0 is the lowest. For example, Facebook usually has a PR 9. If the page rank of where he posted changed and got lowered, the links to that content would go "lower" on the google search results list when you did the search. Like if you have a PR 0 site, your link for "books" would be on page 30 of the Google search results, while Amazon.com would come up in the search results on the first page because they have a higher page rank. Also, if you update frequently, your results will often get "bumped" to the top of the list. If he had old posts/email/blogs, then the results basically could be pushed lower on the totem poll in the Google world. Hope that makes sense. As far as dead links go, they will remain for a long time if my understanding is correct. I'm no computer expert, just a blogger who tries to study how to get more web traffic to my blog.

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  55. Urgh, a new video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUIYhDUH6zE&context=C310be35ADOEgsToPDskKv5i8cnaN1_Ks_gFa3bm7x

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  56. Mr. Renner,

    I wanted to tell you I enjoy reading your blog. While I tend to believe this case will probably go on forever, I like looking at your blog to see whether you or one of your readers has come up with some type of new idea, something that I find interesting or never thought about. Your blog has generated a swell of interest around Maura Murray's case. Just look at the amount of comments it gets on a daily basis.

    Everyone has an imagination, but it does not matter what I or anyone else thinks. What matters is what you can prove.

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    1. Nicely said, perfectly put. ~ John Green

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  57. From the link above/"black eye":
    "According to James Renner's blog, John Healy, a New Hampshire private investigator who is apparently aligned with Camp O'Connell, harshly pummeled the reliability of the late Butch Atwood's recollection of Maura Murray's appearance at the Haverhill NH location where Murray is believed to have crashed and abandoned her 1996 Saturn. Healy described Atwood's memory as, to put it charitably, undependable.

    The police description of Maura says only that she was wearing jeans and a jacket, a description that would apply to thousands and thousands of women Maura's approximate age and size. Presumably this description came from Atwood, but by itself, it's awfully vague. Men are notorious for not noticing things like hair style, clothing, eye color, and the like. And, except for a street light or two, it was dark -- around 7:30 PM -- when Atwood briefly talked with Murray. Low light at best.

    However, Atwood must have been able to specifically identify something unique enough about Maura Murray's appearance in order for police to reasonably believe that Maura was in fact at the crash site. Otherwise, because Maura simply vanished, other possibilities beyond New Hampshire would have been considered, such as car-jacking. Police would have spent more time making sure it was definitely Maura Murray who drove the Saturn to its final location on Route 112.

    Might police have relied so strongly on Atwood's identification because he noticed Maura had some kind of facial bruise?

    Is that why Healy, as quoted by Renner, so viciously referred to Atwood himself as "that shithead?" Healy, as a retired New Hampshire state police detective, should know better. Healy, like anyone in law enforcement, knows how easily the memory plays tricks with the recollection of witnesses. It's a well-documented, very human occurrence..."

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  58. Continued:

    "...While law enforcement believes Maura Murray was at the crash site, many within law enforcement believe, as a result of their reasonably extensive search, that Maura did not enter, hide, or die in the nearby woods. Even Healy stated as much recently on Boston's Fox News.

    So why would Healy, an experienced detective, strongly derogate Atwood's recollection and at the same time insist that Maura was with the Saturn? Atwood, after all, is the only eyewitness who can place Maura at the Saturn. And it seems very unlikely that Atwood could have done so unless he noticed something unique about Maura's appearance, such as a black eye. Which is maybe why the ATM video of Maura has never been released?

    If Atwood saw a bruised face on Maura, then that would undermine Camp O'Connell's nearly eight-year contention that Maura's disappearance is entirely unrelated to anything in the hours or days before her disappearance. It undermines O'Connell's contention that law enforcement failed their obligation to protect the public from a criminal who may have abducted Maura. In fact, if Maura was struck in the face by someone else before she left UMass, but the attack was unreported to police in the Amherst/Northampton area, then that might explain, at least in part, why she was headed north in the first place.

    If Maura was in fact reliably indentified by Atwood because she had a black eye or a bandaged nose, then that would inevitably put a different light on Maura's disappearance from the one presented by O'Connell and the Murrays.

    In fact, it would seem that O'Connell, who is, according to the Cape Cod Times, an attorney, private investigator, and former Sandwich Massachusetts police officer, has a grudge match going with New Hampshire State Police -- Chuck West in particular.

    Is O'Connell, who represents some of the family of the deceased Patric McCarthy, using the Murray family in order further fuel his fight with New Hampshire State Police?

    Is there bad blood between Healy and other NHSP officers, active and retired? Is the same true of Frank Kelly, another New Hampshire private investigator who is also apparently in the Murray/O'Connell camp?

    It would appear that these two tragic cases have become a game of hardball public relations when they should instead be entirely about the victims and the honest discovery of what happened to them."

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    1. I am just wondering if anyone else actually saw Maura face to face after she left the party on the saturday night. Between the time she was dropped back on Sunday afternoon and when she left on Monday did she see anyone in college. I know she sent emails and there was a report of a student saying he saw her leaving on the Monday afternoon but did anyone actually see her clearly enough to see if she had any marks on her face?

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    2. Anonymous @ 12:01 pm:

      It has been verified by the police that Maura stopped at a liquor store that afternoon; I believe there is video evidence. I would bet the police questioned whoever worked at the store and got a description of Maura. Of course, they've never released a specific description of what was seen on the surveillance but I'm sure they know if anything was "off" about her. I hope.

      -Jenny

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    3. Keep in mind that Maura was in a car accident in the wee hours of Sunday morning so a black eye or marks on her face are very possible.
      froggy
      NH

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  59. Beagle is a joke! Sad sorry sack looking for any kind of attention from anyone. Ignore him

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  60. Mr112Dirtbag's latest video....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6SQReb1X_w&context=C3323d2dADOEgsToPDskKv5i8cnaN1_Ks_gFa3bm7x

    GBN
    Maine

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  61. This just occurred to me and maybe someone up in that area will have a better memory. I travelled up to North Conway in September 2003. We planned to spend part of the day driving the Kancamagus Highway, which appears to be Route 112. We were quite disappointed to discover that there were tons of road repairs being done, with seeming miles of unpaved roads still not yet repaved. I remember flag men and quite a big project being done. I truly can't remember the exact route we took but these repairs were substantial. I know we were on Route 112 for at least part of the ride. I have no idea if we made it as far west as the crash site, although that doesn't really matter. I don't know if they finished all of these road repairs before winter or if they lingered into the winter of 2003-04. Does anyone remember this? If they did linger, would it not be likely that there was quite a few construction workers in the area during that winter?

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  62. The more focus people give to this guy's stupid meaningless videos, the more gratification he gains. Stop posting your frustrations toward his antics and let him make a mistake of posting something with too much info because he hasn't received the gratification he gets from this blog. The blog is great but force his hand. He will read all these comments and realize that people are on to his personal gains and forget him.

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  63. Every time I feel like I have wasted my time, I think of something else. From the "Bodies of Water" video, he refers to Sassamon. Yes it could be the Sassamon golf course. Someone who would go skiing (the ticket stub) would probably frequent a golf course. Or, this person (Beagle or the real killer, not sure if they are one in the same) could have worked at both places in the past. Anyway, I also came across this about John Sassamon. He was a Native American interpreter in the 1600's. Anyway, long story short, here is the quote that was scary. "Sassamon was reported missing. In January or February 1675, his body was discovered in Assawompset Pond. At first, the Puritans thought that he had drowned by accident; but the settlers learned that he was murdered and his neck broken." Maybe Beagle is just trying to draw correlations here with wild tangents, but maybe it has some relevance. Who knows. Here's the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sassamon

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  64. Here's another person from the "Bodies of Water" video. Kenneth Patton has this quote repeated over and over on Google. "By the choices and acts of our lives, we create the person that we are and the faces that we wear. By the choices and acts of our lives we give to the world wherein our lives are lived, hoping that our neighbors will find our contributions to be of worth, and hoping that the world will be a little more gracious for our time in it." This applies to a lot of people in this case doesn't it?

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  65. Andy Kendrick works for an intelligence and security firm with the government. This ties into all of Beagle's ideas that virtually everything ties back to a government conspiracy. It also says that the A1C company is "A Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small-Business" Is Beagle a veteran? Just curious. http://www.a1cpartners.com/leadership-team/andy-kendrick/

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  66. Tracey Adamson (spelled with an "e" which he did not do. "Tracey Adamson. Experience: Director Population Health Planning and Performance, Northern Sydney Central Coast Health" from the Google search I did. The link was dead. This also goes back to Beagle's ridiculous ideas that this is some sort of conspiracy dealing with fertility clinics and stealing eggs from young women from the Topix rants.

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  67. Perhaps the numbers 1-5-27-8 are for a combination lock...maybe for a storage unit...

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  68. It seems like this creep is just playing a game of MAKE BELIEVE.
    If he really hd anything to do with the dissappearance of Maura he would send a clue that would have substance. Otherwise he is just a guy that is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
    If he wants to play "PRETEND" then I can give you a scenerio that fits those numbers.
    THe Connecticut ValleyRiver Killer
    The 1st victim was 27 years old "1 and 27"
    There were 8 murders suspected of being the work of the CVR Killer.
    and Lastly the 8 bodies of the victims were found in 5 locations.
    2 in Harland, VT, 2 in Unity, NH,2 in Kelleyville, NH, 1 in Neww London and 1 in Saxton River, VT
    "1,27,8,5" I thought the drawing might me a map but it doesn't line up with anything. There are 8 points to the drawing though.
    Froggy from NH

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  69. With a blog filled with so many amazingly bright minds who know just about everything about everything who needs dna tests?? who needs real criminal profilers?? Who needs real lawyers to post their thoughts only to be sliced and diced? Who needs to listen to anyone else blither away on any other blogs, hiding behind screen names when we have all of you to give us the facts?? You know it all, you know everything wow. thank GOD you are all such know it alls.So how many cases have you gems solved so far? No need to put my name you when you know it all? What would we ever do without major crimes solvers like all of you? Perhaps solve some crimes for real!

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  70. That red thing is a broken/splintered arrow

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  71. The numbers equal the numbers on that prison picture of McGrath

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  72. Hi.I would just like to say something that i noticed while watching the episode of disappeared about maura murray. Near the end when they are interviewing Fred about what he thinks happened to his daughter, he says he thinks some "dirtbag" probably just came and grabbed her. Do you think there could be any link between this and the userame of whoever posted the video?

    How come the creator of this video has never been found? Arent there rather straightforward ways to track these things using IP addresses, when requested by law enforcement? Has law enforcement made any statements regarding these videos??

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  73. If the numbers are miles it seems to lead you to Stinson Lake in Rumney NH using a delorme map. It is a fairly remote area. But heading east from the crash site using the numbers as miles in the 5 1 27 8 sequence. Go about 5 miles take a rt and go about a mile and take a left and follow the route about 27 miles in a southerly direction then a left towards Stinson Lake which is about 8 miles north. Probably nothing but who knows. Charlie

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  74. One idea that I have for the strange video puzzle that shows the face and numbers is this: The numbers in the picture are 1, 5, 27, and 8. If you think of the list of numbers from 0 to 9 and you remove the numbers 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, that leaves you with 0, 3, 4, 6, 9. That got me to thinking about 5-didget zip codes. Interestingly the number 03469 is the zip code for Swanzey, NH. Not sure if this means anything, but hadn't heard anybody consider a zip code clue as a possibility.

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