Tuesday, April 23, 2013

Kathleen Murray busted for growing pot in Vermont **UPDATED**


Kathleen Murray was running with some very dangerous people in Vermont. Her ex husband, Tim Carpenter, tried to get her help, and admittedly had problems himself. He went clean. She met a bad dude in rehab and followed him to Swanton, VT when she got out. This was the end result:

Vt. State Police - 9:40 pm Sun Jun 12th, 2011 
On June 12, 2011 at approximately 0002 hours the VT State Police responded to 8 Jonegin Drive in Swanton for a reported domestic disturbance.
During the investigation of this assault, Trooper Hill was searching for one of the people involved and located marijuana plants growing in plastic buckets in the backyard. The female resident, Kathleen Carpenter, was arrested for Cultivation of Marijuana as well as Violation of Pre-Trial Conditions of Release. She was cited and later released. She will appear in Franklin District Court on July 25, 2011. The male resident, Harold ST Francis, was also arrested for Cultivation of Marijuana as well as Domestic Assault. ST Francis will be arraigned on Monday June 13, 2011 in Franklin District Court.
Note "violation of conditions" means she had been arrested before

INCIDENT: Drugs
CASE #: 11A202573
TROOPER: Matthew Hill
STATION: ST Albans
CONTACT#: 524 5993
DATE/TIME: 0030 6/12/11
LOCATION (specific):
8 Jonergin Drive, Swanton VT
VIOLATION:
Cultivation of Marijuana (Misdemeanor)
Violation of Conditions of Release
ACCUSED: Kathleen Carpenter
AGE: 33
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE:
Swanton, VT
ACCUSED: Harold E. ST Francis
AGE:44
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE:
Swanton, VT

Vt. State Police - 3:55 am Sun Jun 12th, 2011 
Harold E. St Francis was charged with Domestic Assault, engaging in a
physical confrontation with his girlfriend early Sunday morning.
Vermont State Police responded to a reported citizen disturbance on
Jonergin Drive in Swanton, VT on June 12th, 2011. The investigation
revealed the 44 year old male and his girlfriend began arguing with each
other and the argument turned physical. St Francis was Lodged in
Chittenden County Correctional Facility and
scheduled for his arrangement on June 13th, 2011.
COURT ACTION: Y- Lodged
DATE: June 13th, 2011
COURT: Franklin
BAIL: $5,000.00
INCIDENT: Second Degree Aggravated Domestic Assault
CASE #: 11A202573
TROOPER: Richard Stepien
STATION: St. Albans
CONTACT#: 524 5993
DATE/TIME: June 12, 2011 at 0002 hours
LOCATION (specific):Residence on Jonergin Dr, Swanton, VT
VIOLATION:
Second Degree Aggravated Domestic Assault
ACCUSED: Harold E. St Francis
AGE: 44
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE:
Swanton, VT
VICTIM: Kathleen Carpenter
AGE:34
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE: Swanton, VT


Then this happened:

"On July 25, 2012, at approximately 8:30 PM Swanton Police observed Kathleen Carpenter,age 33 of Swanton, operating a Ford Escape on Jonergin Drive. Carpenter is known to have a suspended license.
"After verifying Carpenter's suspension, a motor vehicle stop was initiated on Grand Avenue. While speaking with Carpenter the odor of intoxicates was detected and she had watery bloodshot eyes. She was asked to exit the vehicle and perform dexterity tests.
"Carpenter was transported to the Swanton Police Department for processing. She provided a breath sample which resulted in .352%" "Carpenter was issued a citation to appear in Franklin District Court on August 6th, 2012 at 1:00 PM to answer the charges of Driving with a Suspended License and Driving under the Influence-Second Offense"
.352 is the highest BAC I have ever heard of.
Why am I including this?
It goes along with what Tim told me about Kathleen's history and the reason she has to want to be that wasted. I think it goes to the core of Maura's problem and gives a reason for why she fled from UMass and her father.

26 comments:

  1. And this has exactly what to do with Maura's disappearance?

    No wonder these people won't talk to you.

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    2. Hi. I wrote what I think is a really good statement of why I think this matters. It is lower on this thread, if you are interested. I'd like to hear your comments about it. It seems that with the exception of the very articulate person I was responding to below, most of the few comments here that agree with you tend to offer no reasoning or evidence, merely implied aspersions, which is quite suggestive. I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind your opinions. Again, please see my reasoning, lower on this thread.

      ~ John Green

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    3. to "April 23":
      I suppose your question is not rethorical, meaning you do in fact know that this information has "nothing" to do with the actions that led to her disappearance?

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    4. I also agree. I don't think this kind of info will find Maura. In fact, I think I would be drinking if I had a sister missing. Maura's disappearance can't be easy on the Murrays.

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  2. This is interesting, but I would be careful about using the information to draw conclusions. It might shed light on the dynamics of the family, but it could be unconnected, and what happens to Maura's sister 8 or 9 years later is only tangentially related to the case. Problems with alcohol can run in families, and that might be all there is to Kathleen's record.

    Chris

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  3. It seems like you are focusing quite a bit more heavily on why she ran than what happened to her after the crash. Might I suggest 2 books or 2 volumes? The first one would be why she may have left and that mystery. The sequel (publish 1 year later) is what may have happened to her.

    There's definitely enough reader interest to support two volumes and there really are *2 separate mysteries here* so it would be quite apt. It would also give you the opportunity to initially focus more heavily on the flight without giving short shrift to the second mystery (which a lot of people are obsessed with). As you said earlier "Past is Prologue" - what if in this case the first book was an extended stand-alone prologue to the sequel?

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  4. My god.....! Can it be possible.....?

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  5. To "April 23".... the fact is : people are talking to James Renner...and he is doing more by uncovering certain things than you are by keeping silent....

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  6. April 23--Renner believes that the key to Maura's disappearance lies in the reason she left. Personally I'm not convinced of that, but he's got a valid line of inquiry. Thus, understanding her sister might give us some insight into Maura's motivation.

    This evidence seems rather iffy here, though. Most of the people I have known who grow pot are not bad guys. They're breaking the law, but as we are seeing, those laws are starting to crumble. Maura's sister is a pothead. A lot of us smoke pot and we aren't troubled, nor are we dangerous criminals. Nonetheless, Renner might be on to something. If the call Maura received was from her sister (when and how was that established?), then that would strongly imply to me that it was something within the family that set Maura off. At least that's the direction I would look. Give Renner some room. There's a big conflict in this--if her family knows why she left (and I suspect they do), and they know where she went, then their proclaimed desire to find her is all a lot of smoke and mirrors meant to cover her trail--meaning she may well be alive out there somewhere. If, on the other hand, they know why she left, but not where she went then something unplanned may have happened on that road in New Hampshire or somewhere else.

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    1. For me the salient part of this post wasn't Kathleen's pot hustle, but rather her (very) drunk driving with a suspended license after an incident of physical abuse.

      Yes, it's risky to extrapolate from that, but one is tempted to observe that heavy drinking--and driving, driving away--is how at least one Murray daughter responds to abuse from a man.

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    2. I appreciate your message. I want to add something with a rhetorical question without at all meaning it to be a swipe at you. In terms of being "bad guys," what about most of the guys who beat up their wives?

      Also, in terms of being troubled, a .352 BAC for a second offense in a year while driving on a suspended license is a WHOPPING indication of troubles that corroborates the stuff that Tim C. said. That BAC is so high that in a VA TECH study examining the likelihood of causing an accident at a given BAC level, they could not examine levels that high because so few people arrested have BACs that high. This because at that level, loss of consciousness is likely and death is possible. Most people can't coordinate the effort to start a car that drunk. Moreover, hard core drunk drivers (with three or more DUIs) were found to have an average BAC of .2. Kathleen's was 75% higher than that. This relates directly to Maura's case for a couple reasons. First, there is ample evidence that Maura had a very serious drinking problem (things that Billy said about her, the booze in the car, things that Kathleen said about her, the fact that she may have had 2 drunk driving accidents in four days, etc.) In addiction, there are two, related cycles: flood the brain with falsely induced neepinepheren (which makes you feel that things are good) via some artificial inducement (booze, smokes, sex, coke, heroin, meth, etc.) then suffer depression and urges as your brain struggles to get back to equalibrium and you don't have enough of those chemicals to feel normal. The cycle escalates and people need more and more and more. The psychological cycle is one of shame. Addicts and alcoholics very typically suffer a deep sense of shame and it is often a family shame. Leading researchers on alcoholism write things like "alcoholism and addiction are a family disease" and statistics show that alcoholics and addicts are more likely to recover if their entire family enters therapy. There is such ample evidence that family shame at hand in the drinking problems faced by Kathleen and Maura (with Kathleen's being, on her numbers, a world class drinking problem), Fred's strange attitudes and statements, the pictures of the cousins in the playboy magazine, the secretiveness around everything (hallmark of a codependent family), the statements that Maura was running the family at a 14 year old, how she mimicked her father's mule driving attitude in coaching her brother, how they are obsessed with presenting Maura as the all-American unflawed girl even when it is obvious that she had problems ... all of this is prototypical alcoholic/codpendent family. When you add in the inconsistencies around what has been said regarding why Fred was there that weekend, his admitted equivocation in the statements he made to the police about Maura's accident, his bizarre statement about the rag in the tailpipe ... and on an on ... I think it would be journalistically irresponsible of James to not explore this angle.

      ~ John Green

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    3. As usual, John Green wins his argument presented in an exquisite logical format. He says: "I think it would be journalistically irresponsible of James to not explore this angle". And he is right.

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    4. Thank you, John Green, for continuing to be one of the best and most cogent commenters on this blog.

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    5. John Green rocks. A man after my own heart. Love every post he's ever laid down here and the man knows what logic is.

      John, if you ever want to chat over the case with a like-minded thinker, shoot me an e-mail at ihatereseda@aol.com (not my primary, so no worries about privacy posting same).

      adam

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  7. There's some gas to this story. If Maura did recieve a troubling phone call from Kathleen in the day or two prior to her vanishing act, and it can be proven Katheleen and Tim were into some drug dealing etc., then there is reasons to go this route. Are all pot heads bad? No. But some are. Do all pot growers commit crimes? No. But some do. There is, whether the average pot smoker wants to admit it or not, a seedy underbelly to pot life. James is working on his own with no input from those closest to Maura, so he is casting a wide net. Maybe if Kathleen, Kate, Fred, or Sara would be honest, then he could narrow his focus. It's been a decade for Christ's sake. Drop the ego's and the silly pretension that you're going to ruin Maura's reputation because she made a few hiccups in her personal life, and sit down and air it with James.

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    1. Unless telling the truth sends another family member away.
      You can't help but wonder who the heck Fred is trying to protect.

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    2. I can understand why they won't speak to him. He isn't looking into what happened to Maura. Seems to me he is just muddying the waters with this kind of information.

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  9. That is an excellent opinion stated above.

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  10. Fred is protecting himself - Mr. Renner makes that very clear in one of his latest posts.
    Have you taken your latest information about Fred to the police like you recently wrote you would, Mr. Renner?

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  11. Katherleen's BAC level gives me a new theory about Maura.

    What if she was picked up not by a weirdo but by some kids her age and they kept partying. If she'd already drunk a box of wine and she kept drinking (despondent at this point - she's screwed up yet again), maybe she a) died that night of alcohol poisoning or b) did drugs with her new friends (heroin was big in that area) and OD'd?

    They don't want to get in trouble (and they don't really even know her or care about her) so they don't call the ambulance. Then they conspired to get rid of the body (maybe even with the help of one of their parents).

    In my mind it is as likely as any "dirtbag" scenario - just a different variation on the same thing but perhaps even more likely.

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    1. Not a bad theory.

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    2. Where were some of her girlfriends that did know her that night? Maybe they had been drinking with her that evening and that is why they are not talking about what happened?

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  12. I'm a new reader; have been interested in this case from the start. Just wondering - has anyone ever been ever to find out the nature of the disturbing phone call from her sister? What has the sister said about the phone call?

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  13. Unfortunately, this is some 8 - 9 years after Maura's disappearance, and it is a minor pot growing incident and a DUI by her older sister. The vast majority of people on this blog have either done one of both of these, or at least smoked pot. Kathleen was caught up in a bad relationship sounds to me. "BFD", if you get my drift. None of this has anything to do with Maura, or what was going on up until the time she left/disappeared. If you are searching for "family issues", then you must look into what her life was like UP UNTIL the time she disappeared.

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