Friday, June 28, 2013

Forget the Past

Here are some interesting comments from Fred Murray, when asked about the days leading up to Maura's disappearance:

From South Shore Express:

One line Fred repeated throughout the day was, "it doesn't matter." If you ask what he did for a living, or why Maura packed her things, or didn't tell anyone where she was headed, he'll just answer, "It doesn't matter." "We'll never know why she came up here," Fred said. 
All that matters to Fred is "what happened on Wild Ammonoosuc Road."

From the Patriot Ledger, February 9, 2005:

The Stage Shop owner about Fred: “He’s just wrong. He’s not telling us anything about her and what he’s done is turned neighbor against neighbor up here.” 

From WCVB:

"If she was upset and wanted to get away to find peace, it would be here. It doesn't matter what brought her here to this point. Once she got here, something happened," 

From 20/20:

“Regardless of what brought Murray to that remote area, her father wants to know where she is now.”


  1. I had commented on a post a few weeks back but it was never approved.

    Maura's problems with the law could have seriously jeopardized Billy's security clearance if they were to go on and get married (depending on what type of clearance he needed in his military career- Active Duty or Reserve.) He must have had insight to that- any of her actions could prevent him from being selected for positions he would strive for that would require an enhanced security clearance. I wonder if he was concerned about that and possibly discussed that with her? It would be an additional burden.

    1. What "problems with the law"?

      If you are referring to her fraudulent use of a credit card, she was not charged (it was a disciplinary matter with UMASS).

    2. If you read the documents on the cc fraud on this blog you can see she was officially charged on November 3rd.

    3. Yes, the UMASS issues. And I am mainly talking about a position with a Top Secret clearance and it's variations. Plus, her USMA dismissal would follow them around as they PCS'd to different posts... Gossup, gossup, gossup... among their peers and possibly his superiors.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    5. "If you read the documents on the cc fraud on this blog you can see she was officially charged on November 3rd."

      I read the docs. She was not charged on November 3rd. The application for complaint is dated 11/11/03. A complaint is a charging document; one is not "charged" until there is a complaint. If there was a complaint, it is not included in the docs on this site. Do you have a copy, JW?

    6. Maybe I'm wrong, forgive me if I am, but if you click the link to the documents in the sidebar (the file cabinet), the last item you find is a link to the documents about the cc fraud. If you open them, the very first page is a summary where you can read the charge as one of the first things.

      I've copied the relevant part:

      11/03/2003 Open summons Arrest 03-1416-AR

      Disposition: Responsible (12/16/2003)


    7. JW -- open the doc. Scroll to the second page. It is titled "Application for Complaint."

      "A criminal proceeding does not commence in the District Court until a complaint has been authorized. An application for complaint is merely a preliminary procedure to determine if criminal proceedings should commence." District Court Standards of Judicial Practice: The Complaint Procedure § 5:02 (2008).

      What happened in Maura's case is, had she not gone missing, she would have appeared at a hearing, and, if there had been "no trouble," the application for complaint would have been denied (and destroyed after one year). Currently, the application is still pending (i.e., it was denied but a complaint was never issued). Therefore, she has yet to be charged.

    8. *it was NOT denied but a complaint was never issued.

  2. @ Jen - that is a great point. I never thought of that before.

    @ James - here's a couple other things. I stayed at the sister hotel to where Fred stayed in Haverhill a few times, according to the owner. She told me that he was a pretty mean guy. One of the employees told me that they were going to offer some special services to him to make his time there easier. When she knocked on his door, he opened and upon her saying "good morning, Mr. Murray" he slammed it in her face.

    Two different business owners and an additional employee of a third business also stated that he had to be removed from their establishments because he was making angry demands of the employees and patrons.

    1. That was very rude of him. Wow, with this case, the more I hear, the less I know! It is so confusing. I truly hope we can get to the bottom of it.

  3. How would Fred find out what happened at the scene?

    As was posted on this blog, the only witness to place Maura Murray at the scene, Butch Atwood, gave “‘[three] different versions of what happened the night he [allegedly] talked to Maura on the side of the road.’ In one version, Maura spoke to him from the car. In another, she was standing outside when she spoke to him.”

    This inconsistency surfaces in the Maribeth Conway article. There, in Part II of her article, Conway describes Atwood’s account. He stated that, when he had arrived at the scene, he “saw a young woman alone in the car” who “struggled to get out” because the “door was hitting against a snowbank” and who “remained on the driver's side of [the] car … during their entire conversation.” This highly implausible account was surely fabricated in whole or in part.

    The days leading up to the accident, however, might suggest Maura’s conduct at the scene (e.g., whether she left willingly, etc.). In other words, I would not credit Butch’s account; I doubt the man knew anything. Fred, however, does know something -- if and when he decides to share it, there is at least some hope that he can learn the truth.

  4. There has been a lot of discussion about FM on this blog and elsewhere. Why doesn’t he want to talk about the past and why doesn’t he want to talk to James? Although I really tried to understand his position I just can’t.

    I can understand it’s very painful for him to hear about Maura’s darker side. Maybe he didn’t know why she really left West Point or that she had used a stolen credit card. But he must know now and he must realize now that the past is important to understand why she left Amherst that day.

    I guess most of us think it is very possible she was abducted and murdered. But why is FM after all those years not interested in the possibility she ran away? Just because he hasn’t heard from her since? And because it is impossible she wouldn’t contact him? I understand that it is hard to believe that and very hard to live with. But after all those years, why would he still hang on to his believe that she was murdered somewhere along 112 in NH?

    Despite all the search efforts in the area, by himself, LE, volunteers, dogs and helicopters, Maura hasn’t been found. There is also no evidence she is there. Nobody has found anything that suggests her body is there to be found.

    So why would you not hope, maybe against better judgment, that she is alive and really try to find her? Especially when a real journalist steps in who will do all the hard work for you?

    Although I find it hard to believe, I really wonder if FM knows that the past will tell us where she is. Maybe he knows or realizes she ran away and she does not want to be found. And maybe that's why he want's us to believe that the past is not important.

    1. JW -- I agree one-hundred percent. I believe that he wishes to focus on the scene, and not on the days leading up to the accident, is that he did something that he is ashamed of in the days leading up to the crash, but he genuinely does not know what happened to her. In other words, I believe that Fred did something wrong/unlawful during his trip to see Maura, but that he was genuinely surprised by her decision to go to New Hampshire and the result of that decision.

  5. I have always wondered why if Maura's family believes she was murdered they wouldn't at some point file to have her declared deceased? I know many other families have done that to at least have some sort of closure. Not that it's the thing for everybody, but I just think if they truly believed she is dead, they might. Also, it may bring the investigating agencies that are withholding records from being released to at least provide some justification as to why they refuse to make their findings available. Just a thought.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. There is no way of knowing whether UMASS took disciplinary action against Maura for the fraudulent use of the credit card. Regardless of whether they did or didn't UMASS would reserve the right to look at past conduct, and theft is a violation of UMASS student code of conduct.

    October 20, 2003 - The first date Maura fraudulently used the credit card. (pg 10, pg 19)

    November 3, 2003 (7:22 PM) - The victim reported theft and gave a statement to the police.(pg 8, pg 9). Later that same evening Maura attempted to use the credit card again and that is when she encountered the police. (pg 22)

    November 9, 2003 - Maura went into the police station for an interview. She admitted her guilt and it appears that she paid a restitution of $79.02. The officer advised her that she was going to be charged for unauthorized use of a credit card and she'd receive her court date in the mail. The investigation at that point was complete and the paperwork would be sent to the court. (pg 22 & 23)

    November 11, 2003 - The application for complaint was filled out by Officer Rivera. Her hearing date was set for December 16, 2003 at noon. (pg 2)

    It's reasonable to assume that she did show up on December 16. She did accept responsibility for the use of the credit card and offered to pay the 79.02 on the November 9, interview. The sentence of 3 months trouble free wasn't set by UMASS or the police so it must of been set by the court. The night of the accident she would've been within that 3 months.

    If she had stayed around to talk to police on the night of the accident and they determined that she was driving under the influence then she'd face charges as a result of that, and potentially for the fraudulent use of a credit card. I see no reason why the court would dismiss that.

    The theft of the credit card, driving under the influence and potentially the lying to professors in her email would all be violations of the UMASS student code of conduct. There is no way of knowing for certain whether or not she would be expelled, but that would be one course of action.

    1. Absolutely agree. Had Maura stuck around the scene of the second accident, the Commonwealth would have found out, and Maura likely would have been charged for the credit card fraud (and she may have faced a DUI in N.H.).

      That said, we still don't know why she went to N.H. in the first place (or why she chose to drink and drive, in N.H.; assuming that she did so).

      "It's reasonable to assume that she did show up on December 16. She did accept responsibility for the use of the credit card and offered to pay the 79.02 on the November 9, interview. The sentence of 3 months trouble free wasn't set by UMASS or the police so it must of been set by the court."

      The hearing would have been a probable cause hearing. If she didn't go, a complaint would have issued. She must have gone. She was not "sentenced" because she was not charged. Rather, had she stayed out of trouble for three months (and paid the victim back) a complaint would never have issued; and the application for complaint would have been destroyed after a year.

      I should note (as it's somewhat relevant) that I am a Massachusetts attorney and I am familiar with this type of arrangement. To repeat, Maura was not charged. The application for complaint is still pending.

  7. "We'll never know why she came up here," Fred says.

    What if she's alive and she comes back or calls Renner or something?

    Or does Fred know something nobody else knows?

    John Green

  8. I have said all along that mauras family should be greatful to have the attention and outlet that this forum offers, renner has given an anon avenue for someone to come forward as well as an opportunity for maura to reach out if she is alive

  9. Forget the past ??? Her past? his past? Is that a suggestion? a directive? an advise? Just precisely what does Mr. Murray mean by that ? Maura's past could no and was not a terrible one. She was too young for that. Too young to be judged by her "past" actions....and too young to have disappeared...If anyone thinks the "past" is not relevant to anything or anyone, they are assuming wrong.

  10. "We'll never know why she came up here," Fred says.

    The guy from the statement analysis blog would have a field day with this one.

    Fred already knows that MM will never been found. He already knows that she will be able to tell anyone why she came up there.

  11. Maybe his is just tired and frustrated with the fact that even he has never known why she ended up there in the first place? It has to be hard for the people close to her to have so many questions and no solid answers..

  12. I have steered clear of this vile blog for a little over 8 months now, and I see everything is pretty much the same: Renner filling in his own fiction whenever he feels like trying to strong arm one of the Murrays into delving into Maura's past. Fred's comments are just as easily explainable today as they were a year or two ago when you brought them up - Fred has always wanted the focus to stay on the search for Maura and not about dirt she may have had in her past. You dramatizing the story into some sort of hit from a drug deal gone bad, or romanticizing that Fred is breaking bad...whatever the "creative angle" is for the same old story you just disgusting.

    I realize that there is a very remote possibility that something from her past may explain why she was going where she was going, but it by no stretch of the imagination explains why she was more than likely kidnapped. You think the cops wouldn't know that by now, Detective Renner? Oh, that's right, you're not a detective; you have no fucking idea what you're even doing except hurting a family who is hurting from missing a loved one. Let's "hope" nothing like that ever happens to you.


      I didn't want you to feel like you were being ignored sycohpantrenner.