A new look at one of the North Country's Coldest Cases
See: Time line is key post!! I posted in wrong date 2012 and to lazy to the type. Plz take a look...I think I am pretty spot on!!!?!
I can't find that post is there a link?
So sorry I am on my cell and I can't seem to copy post to enter in this thread arrhh can you help me or were u now able to find it? Thanks
Oops Dec 6. Today
On bottom of page/thread 2012 Jan. 19 title of page: PUBLIC RECORDS.Post is TIME LINE IS KEY. So sorry never posted b4 & can't figure out how to copy & paste Wa wa y post is dated Dec 7 2013 I think you may find IT VERY INTERESTING PLZ LET ME JEAR WHAT YOU THINK THANKS
Not the most far fetched theory, but I think He was looked at many many times.
In 2010 I spoke with MM's brother. And Aunt, several times. The time line is key. I just don't believe BA and him going driving around looking for her ! ? I live in a winter climate and if I was her first thing I would do is go to the nearest house and call AAA and stay warmer.
Its definitely plausible .
HAS ANYONE TAKE A LOOK AT MAURIA'S FATHER,A STRANGE RELATIONSHIP. I THINK HE WAS A LITTLE TOO CLOSE.WHY VERMONT,THAN TO NEW HAMPHIRE,THE CORRUPT STATE POLICE.I,VE SEEN FEW OTHER CASES UP THERE,THEY COULD'NT FIND YOU IF WERE AT THE POLICE STATION.ONCE PEOPLE GO MISSING UP IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.THEY HAVE THE MOST TO SOLVE FOR IT BEING IN THE LIVE OR DIE STATE,OR WOULD YOU JUST SAY DIE STATE?
Melios could you find it?
Maybe it's just me, but this seems like a Mega-telegraphed excursion. If MM or an associate does monitor this blog, she would probably flee the area. Perhaps Renner is misdirecting the blog purposefully, as to not alert her. I kept thinking this the other day. MM must read this blog like the daily paper, if she is alive. Perhaps viewers of this blog can be traced back to a service area, who knows. However, if she is not alive, the shortest distance between two points is either BA or RF, IMO. Watched enough Investigation Discovery to see that killers and rapists are animals in human costumes. No matter how innocent or incapable they look, when they have a target, they do what they have to do. If Renner is right and she is alive, he has just written his own ticket!
Perhaps it is simply to generate a buzz? If the results of this excursion - which, I agree, could be interpreted as telegraphed or over-narrated in order - were not told, it might attract some interest and eagerness to read the book.
What book??? Lol who's his publisher?? Let's see him produce some proof that he is publishing a book!! I'm sorry I just don't buy his STORY, LET HIM PRODUCE SOME RELIABLE EVIDENCE OF THIS BEING A FACT! DOUBTFUL HE WILL ANY TIME SOON
Time line, you are wise not to publish your comments under your own name, lest anyone associate evidence of your stupidity as fact with you. Are you .... like .... okay? Are you like huffing turpentine or something?
Ha ha ha ha, good one, John. Almost spit out my coffee. :-)
BA is dead, there is no on to prosecution! For this reason LE not even gonna waste resources looking for her body. Case will never be solved unless someone accidentally finds her remains. They for sure won't find it in a well. That's why he put her body in a well, so it would never be found Yes, LE did look at him, but as I said, he failed a poly ! I think the facts point to BA. But I don't believe her murder will ever be solved, sadly.
For what its worth, I hardly know this for sure, but I have some reason to think that Renner is in London, Ontario.
Dude probably doesn't even have a passport! LOL MMis no longer among the living, sadly.R.I.P. M
London, ON is only a 5 hour drive / 1 hour flight from Renner's home in Akron, OH -- so why did he go to Boston last night on his way to Canada (per his Facebook update yesterday?) More likely, the province of Quebec.
When you cross the boarder they ask you what is the nature of your visit etc. What's he gonna say...I'm looking for the body of MM? LOL I would love to see him post a pic right now of one this flyer and asap him and his investigators at the US BOARDER on his return to the states. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN LOL
All this insistence that James isn't in canada/he's not going to find anything seems a lot more like panic than it seems like doubt.
Seen the same type of attention seeking .behavior on from web master before btk was caught. SO I AM GOING to expect some credible evidence from those that claim to have info others don't ie insert themselves into such tragic situations for the intended purpose of self grandisement. If he can't back up his claims with tangible proof...to me that appears to be fraudulent behaviour! Call me skeptical
BTW I am right this minute in Paris on top Effiel Tower! Aka Scott Peterson Lol SEEING IS BELIEVING
To put more bluntly, I think James is sad attention seeking phony IF NOT, he would be able to produce the credible proof of his claims as I have suggested above! And I would be short one of my feet and offer a sincere apology immediately.
@ LABP, My thoughts exactly. Thou protest too much.
It would be an amazing outcome if James located her. With all the passing of time I feel it's a long shot at best she is alive. Proves us wrong James, don't pull a Rick Baker on us
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did a google search of "Maura murray Toronto Canada" and found another topic forum (which I'll post next) and found this excerpt awful interesting.... "When the woman called the location in Toronto about Maura, the phone was given to a young woman who asked what she needed to talk to Maura about. The blogger replied she had a question about UMass. The woman said nothing else but handed the phone to a man who identified himself as John Renner. He said there was no Maura here, the woman was mistaken." I find it quite odd that Renner claims to know she is alive and well and this person has written that he spoke to someone about Maura.... Is this a possible type or is Renner actually connected to MM? This excerpt is from this page: http://www.findadeath.com/forum/showthread.php?32752-Mysterious-Disappearance-of-Maura-Murray-in-2004
Your source has it mixed up: James Renner s the one who contacted the Curves in Toronto - he spoke to a female and he said "can I please speak to Maura Murray, this is James Renner" and the female then asked "what would like to talk to her about"? and he proceded to say " something about UMass. there was silence then the phone passed to another female who in turn said there was no Maura there just a Maureen and he had the wrong number. http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/search?q=curves+in+toronto
That's what I thought... That's why I said I wandered if she made a typo. Just found it odd... It's strange that the bbelow Facebook profile has photos from other countries a s well as Canada.
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I could be wrong (would love to hear from others on this), but I don't think she looks anything like the Maura we're looking for.
I'm referring to the blonde phot age progression he did. A few photos this lady looks slightly older however alcohol, stress of hiding etc can cause that. Her eyes and cheekbones mostly stood out to me. It's possible after all this time she's had some plastic surgery done and changed her features slightly? Just found it quite odd that profile came up under Maura murray with a different last name.
I agree Jack and sorry Mrs Forman but I don't see any resemblance at all
DO NOT POST LINKS TO PERSONAL INFO OF MAURA LOOKALIKES. You can send them to me and I'll post without link if it merits discussion.
I think it would be helpful if mr. Renner would post at least partial photo of said fliers as some sort of proof that he's on to something. This could very well be a plot for his book and nothing to do with MM at all.... What proof will he provide if he does in fact locate her, word of mouth?
I think patience is needed and let it all play out, Very amusing comments
Why do you need proof he is writing a book? He's a published author! He's my friend, in real life and currently in Canada looking for Maura.
I didn't say I needed proof he's writing a book...I said proof that's he's possibly found her/is looking for her would be nice. So that we know this isn't just some story to use in his book. Meaning he could just be writing all of this in as a scene in his book of "opinions" and not be on Maura's trail at all. I know he's a published author.....
I'm really not trying to be rude...but James has provided clues and details that otherwise would have probably never been discovered. The majority of the people blasting James for no proof have contributed nothing towards helping the case except whine and complain. This blog is about legit Maura Murray leads and progress, not about satisfying nosy Web bloggers. Give James a break.
So you are asking people ie and others to believe MM to believe a senior on the Deans list with her school books I'm her car just up and Runs across boarder I'm middle of winter AND JUST ABANDONS YEARS OF VERY VERY HARD WORK RIGHT!?!? I suppose next JR will claim he has proof MM is about to win gold medal for Canada on their track team lol. BTW my son is a published author along with his whole 5th grade class, they each wrote a biography including color crayon illustrations and I can actually PROVE IT.lol Nice pic JR where was that taken across the street from your house and where is all the snow? Its winter in Canada right now same as it is here and whereare your team of investigators or are they camera shy?
NEW RELEVANT CLUES AND DETAILS!? SUCH AS?????
Okay, so James is posting under the name "time line is key." Very clever, Renner. You had me going there for a while. P.S.: good luck in Canada.
Here's a clue like in the game CLUE. BA did it with stun gun & duct tape in the bus all in 10 min or less! Keystone cop then let's BA drive away with MM in his car to go look for MM I mean put her in trunk of her own car at out door tow yard so he can return later BTW he covered her with sleeping bag to keep her nice and warm til he returned a short time later and used her car keys to open her trunk. Then a few months later he fails a poly and decides he prefers the heat in Florida to the HEAT in NH ie the POPO. THEN HE DIES. END OF STORY. POPO CANT GET THEIR POI.
Timelineiskey- I do understand where you are coming from. It is hard to trust any Jo Shmo's word...but here is the thing...There is a reason when you Google Maura Murray that James Renner's name pops up. He is legit, known, and not some random person spouting off at the mouth. The only thing I know to tell you are..1. If you don't trust or approve of James' methods...go join Topix. (You'll fit in just fine.2. Don't buy his book. (It's literally as simple as that.)3. Contribute something other to the Maura Murray case (other than angry , pointless, grammatically error filled comments) that proves what Jame's is saying is not the truth. Then you will have some ground to stand on. I hope whatever is eating at you can be helped.
Hey Time Line, not sure why you are so hostile, its totally immature. James is a well known published author, so do your homework first of all. Secondly, you have no idea where James is, and for that matter, he may not even be in Canada, that may be a decoy so as not to scare Maura into leaving. Did you ever think of that Mr. Genius?To all the other bloggers on this site that care, I DO believe it is possible that the Maura Kukaric could be MM. It has been 10 years, and things change. Kukaric's face is wider, especially in the lower areas. When MM disappeared she was quite thin, even skinny. Kukaric is easily 15 - 20 pounds heavier that MM was 10 years ago. If MM had stopped her running, as she already had prior to her disappearance, she could have easily gained 15 or 20 pounds in the last ten years, combine that with dieing her hair blond, and perhaps with a little cosmetic surgery to her face, Kukaric could easily be MM.Sure seems like James is onto something. I hope so.Thanks for reading
I was thinking "if someone didn't want to be found, why continue to use their name?" I know I wouldn't. But if that is Maura and she has been "disappeared" for 10 years... maybe that's the key. No one would suspect someone named Maura would be Maura Murry.
I never said JR wasn't a published author CHECK YOUR FACTS PLZ. I ASKED JR OF PROOF WAS PUBLISHING JR BOOK on MM. I agree that she is not in Canada and wouldn't use her teal name any where if she was alive, which she's not. FYI if she stopped running why were running clothes found in her car. Also basic CSI last known person to see Vic alive is primary POI! THAT IS WHY THEY A CALLED THE LAST PERSON TO SEE VIC ALIVE DOOOH!
LE has stated they are treating MM CASE AS A HOMICIDE! AND THATS A FACT LOL
Why are you so angry? Does the thought of Maura being found bother you for some reason?
Is anyone else sort of wondering if Time Line IS Maura/someone still close to her?
I think Timeline is Columbo
I think we all need to condition ourselves for a negative outcome from James' trip.The comments are going a little overboard - anyone who thinks Maura Kukaric is Maura Murray needs their heads examined, really.More recently I've warmed to the idea that Maura may still be alive - but Time Line is the Key's posts, however hostile/questionable they may be also serve as a pretty stark reminder - we're talking about someone who was disorganised and losing control of her life totally disappearing and remaining untraceable for about ten years of her own free will?It's not physically impossible, but it doesn't happen.I'm no less obsessed with hearing an outcome to this case than the next man, but we really need to realise that the "wrong place wrong time" possibility (in terms of falling prey to a killer) whilst highly unlikely in the timeline given is far more likely than the theory that she ran off and started a new life.Think about it: Maura's life was falling apart around her shortly before she disappeared - and she couldn't stop it - how could someone going through this, as clever as she is/was mastermind such an escape in the middle of a crisis?Maybe I'm being negative, but for me the answer will come one day, and it won't be as astounding as what we all hope it will be.
Totally agree with dougsy...wrong place wrong time. I apologize for being a lil snarky but most of you posting remind me of a bunch of lil lemmings blindly following JR of a cliff to?? I think I have made some very valid observations based on known facts of case. Did anyone of you even read my post at bottom of thread PUBLIC RECORDS. I HAVE PERSONALLY SPOKEN TO MM brother and aunt several times even offering the aunt an almost unlimited financial resource in aiding the search for MM remains. Maybe you should all reread the known facts of this case starting from MM MVA on rt 112 in NH anything prior to that time has zero bearing after the MVA. IMHO way to much irrelevant conjecture is being fabricate from any of her known actions prior to MVA. TIME LINE IS KEY TO KILLED MM BUT BA is dead so there is no one to prosecut. No grand juries nothing zip. Look at the facts and use logic. I no everyone wants to believe she is not dead but not a single fact points in that direction and sadly there are way too many sickos out there and this type of tragic situation plays out every day all across america!
LOL timeline you are full of the proverbial. NONE of MM's family have ever pointed the finger at butch atwood. Furthermore, HE was the one who alerted police about Maurs's accident. He had 10 minutes when Maura was alone and he chose to call police PLUS he was living with his common law wife and his mother at the time of her disappearance. PLUS other witnesses who lived nearby state they saw BA leave the scene ALONE whilst Maura stayed with her car. Oh, and BA also passed a polygraph. But never never the facts eh?! LOOOL
I think of all the missing persons cases. This is one where the likelihood of the person being alive is quite high. Maura was a college student who had gotten in trouble for stealing and some other minor offenses. Maura packed up all her belongings, took at least $4000 (most likely), brought a few of her most cherished possessions, told her boss and professors she'd be gone for a few days, emptied her bank account, bought some alcohol, and hit the road. All of that is fact (whether she took the $4000 is debatable but highly likely). Then she had an accident. She disappeared from the accident scene. And no one has seen her since. Tell those facts in that order to someone who has never hear of this case and ask them what they think happened to her. I have done so and the answer I invariably get is that she was running away and she kept running.. Maura was a runner - a cross country runner. In cross country you are trained to move past obstacles that get in your way. Maura was programmed to react that way and would likely have seen the accident as just another obstacle.
Suggest you recheck those facts! BA took 2 polys so as I correctly stated BA failed a poly. Also never said BA took MM into his home to intro her to the family. MM was on bus bound and gaged. While he sat on bus doing paper work waiting for LE? Sure smells fishy to me. Could you plz tell me where to find the fact that anyone said they saw MM at car after BA drives bus away! I'm not familiar with those eye witness accounts. Even BA said he never saw anyone after he spoke to MM in his statement to LE at scene
Time line why are you offering unlimited financial resources to mm aunt to find her? And what was the aunts response
TLIS- Refer to the Marrottes in connection with MM.
Also the Westmans. Just because BA didn't see anyone doesn't mean they didn't see him.
Except for the fact a huge bus was obstructing westermans view. I don't see how your post makes any sense of course they saw his huge school bus. I asked about eye witnessed account of MM being seen after BA drove away
...If you would stop being so defensive... The Westman's see Maura's lights come on AFTER BA drives away. There is no reasoning with you. I am done trying.
Really where is that fact reported by westermans? BA stated she was un able to open driver's door due to deep snow
Here you go:http://mauramurray.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/forget-butch-atwood-and-rick-forcier.htmlBy all accounts BA was a morbidly obese man who would have had a time concealing a body when he lived with his mother and a wife. The polygraph:http://mauramurray.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/butch-atwood-given-2-lie-detector-tests.htmlon the other hand, you have provided ZERO evidence that BA had anything to do with <aura's disappearance. If you had have such info then feel free to provide it here...
To your point if BA the last known person to see MM alive for sure. Is so not a POI why did LE poly him x2 one of which he did fail!! FACT
We know that LE responded within ten minutes.We know that MM was a solid cross-country runner.In that terrain, in terrible weather conditions, and possibly under the influence of alcohol - not to mention her mental state - are we really going to allow ourselves to believe she literally ran off to freedom?I'm all for embracing the possibility, the remote one at that, that MM fled - but on foot?Not a chance.
Bingo that and the fact no tracks found in fresh snow plus LE canines lost her sent right in front of BA driveway!
Plus LE arrived on scene within 10 minutes after finding MM not at even proceeded to westmans home LE spoke to BA last so BA had a SIG amount of time to secure MM on bus which is where LE found him knock on bus. door and asked BA where's the girl? BA replied he hadn't seen anyone. So LE leaves BA put MM in trunk of his car and offers to drive around looking for her!?!? BTW she only weighed approx 110 lbs.
Maura was still seen at her car after BA left so no chance MR time line
If this a fact then you should have no trouble posting the eye witness source of your fact RIGHT!!?? THANKS I will look for your post soon then okey doky
Fw saw sbd leave and then mm went to the trunk of her car.The info is there if you do your research.
She was put in a vehicle, very quickly. Whether that was someone who arranged to pick her up and help her flee or someone who saw an opportunity and took it can't be proven.However most offenders of that ilk don't set out looking for targets day in, day out - they seize what they class as opportunities - just like a burglar - they spot their chance and take it - Maura was a sitting duck in her state.I hate having this conversation as I genuinely hoped that James may be onto something and I hope she still is.Stand to be corrected if more evidence emerges.My point stands though on her 'running' away - she absolutely did not 'run off' whether she escaped to a new life or met her demise.
LOL @ Dougsy. The cross-country mention was meant to give an insight into her mindset, NOT to imply that she literally ran off on foot to freedom. The concept is that she had a destination in mind and she just kept "running" (not literally on foot, mind you) in spite of an obstacle (the accident) much as she would have done the same in one of her cross-country races if she were to take a tumble along the race route and gotten back up to finish
There's nothing at all outlandish about her leaving on foot. It's 18 miles to Lincoln...six hours walking it, less running it. The night was not that cold, it was not that late, and I covered much greater distances at Maura's age...and I wasn't a trained runner, just an avid hiker. Maura was both.
TLIK - beyond the two poly's, do you believe that LE and the family are convinced Atwood killed Maura?Was Atwood ever linked to other cases or other known sex offenders?
Hi Dougsy you seem to be one of the only level head poster who is using logic based on the facts. All MM. Bro told me when I asked about BA was that he was a POI but that he had died. I did read report that serial killer was in area at time of MM MVA but has since died I think that's as close of a confirm from LE that BA killed MM. They did not name dead serial killer as BA
The serial killer the report was referring to was Israel Keyes who killed a couple in Vermont around that era but Maura's murder does not fit his M.O. That said, I agree with you that Atwood is a prime suspect and that if Maura were grabbed and killed after the accident he was likely the one. As you say, the timeline fits. On the other hand, I think there's also a decent chance that she absconded from the scene and made here way safely elsewhere.
You can always tell when Renner is getting close to something important. The vitriol increases, usually spurred by one or two particular posters. I think there are only 3 or 4 people behind the most asinine posts. But my gosh, they are bizarrely determined to undermine rational discussion. They continually invent new online identities and appear to be SCARED TO DEATH of being identified. I have a pretty good idea who two of them are. For an interesting example of this, look at the Maura Murray Franconia topix forum from February 1, 2012 (as the eighth anniversary approached) and watch what happens when James posts about the Citygirl information and the ring of truth of email. Like I said, whenever James is working on something that is drawing closer to the truth, this small group of vitriol arousers mobilize and make ridiculous, irritating, false and conflict-inducing comments, sometimes with a new identity. Note particular the activities of Citigirl and Beagle around that time. Also, note that during this period, blocks of their messages abut, but very rarely overlap in time and almost never have any exchanges between them, except for one, featuring a "yes" response by Citigirl to a question that Beagle asked before he went offline for while, which Citygirl answered as soon as she came online. At this an other times, the focus of these posters seems to be to denigrate the source of good information and/or to distract discussion from it.If Maura is alive, in addition to other factors, she might be afraid to be found with some of the characters who have become obsessed with her.~ John Green
I was hoping you would comment, JG.
I had to look up what vitriol meant... but I agree!
You're right, John. And nice to see you back.
JG LE HAS PUBLICLY STATED MMs case is being treated a a homicide with an expanded nation wide scope. Sorry you and JR don't wanna focus on the actual FACTS OF THIS CASE. BUT THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS ALL DAY LONG. OH IN CASE YOU AND JR DONT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD HOMICIDE IT MEANS MURDER! MM IS DECEASED! MANOR OF DEATH IS HOMICIDE- THE MEANS OF DEATH WILL LIKELY NEVER NE DETERMINED! SUPPOSE NEXT YOU'RE GONMA CLAIM BOTH YOU AND JR ARE BOTH WAY SMARTER THAN THE FBI AND ALL OTHER LE DEPTS THAT HAVE WORKED THIS CASE COMBINED, RIGHT!?! YOU AND JR ARE HOMNA SOLVE THE HOMOCIDE CASE BLIND FOLD EITH BOTH HANDS TIED BE HIND YOUR BACKS!! LOL WHY ARE YOU BOTH SO THREATENED BY THE ACTUAL TRUE FACTS OF THIS HOMICIDE??? You may have more luck focusing on the facts vs a bunch of weird total nonsense!!" Just a very logical suggestion sadly it appears you and JR prefer the illogical approach LOL
You are completely delusional. There is no body, no blood, no evidence WHAT SO EVER that Maura Murray is dead other than she is missing. She very well may be dead but there is no FACTUAL PROOF. You can type with your CAPS on all freaking day and that is not going to change a thing...
SO K YOU ARE TOTALLY DISMISSING THE FACT THAT LE INVESTIGATION IS FOCUSED ON HOMICED WITHIN DAYS OF MVA!!!! ?? IGNORANT FOR SURE!
Timeline, New Hampshire ATG classifies her disappearance as "suspicious." http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/victim-list/maura-murray.htm
I'm not totally dismissing anything. You are just dead set on it being homicide without YOUR beloved FACTS. Unless you murdered her yourself or were an accomplice...cut the know it all crap. You know just as much as anyone else (from your lack of facts, maybe a lot less actually) You need to open your mind to somethings other than your own opinion.
Mr Green – Do tell me how you know Renner, or anyone else, is getting close to something important? (I notice you edited the original post where you said “closer to the truth”) This is the kind of thing I’m talking about, I have never posted on here before this weekend, yet I’m being vitriolic?Let’s see what James comes back with – I’m sure there’ll be some feedback as the week goes on..
Anyone suggesting Maura K is Maura Murray is insane. There is absolutely no resemblance, plastic surgery or not. James better cough up some evidence soon or he will be shunned just like Rick Baker the con man wanna be PI. If Maura is on the run she won't be using the name Maura or Murray.
BA is not responsible either. Lie detector tests are not reliable especially if you have health problems or anxiety disorders.
Butch Atwood took two polygraphs. He failed the first one and he passed the second one. Also, polygraphs are never 100%. "Butch's wife, Barbara, spoke to me from Florida today, and dropped this little tidbit: Police detectives gave Butch two lie detector tests after Maura went missing. They were told he flunked the first one and passed the second. She believes he failed the first one due to his health complications, which included high blood pressure, diabetes, a-fib, and COPD." I do not believe that Maura is alive, and have never thought that, and won't believe that unless there's photographic proof. I do believe she had reasons to avoid the police, and that she took off on foot and eventually died from exposure.
Can anyone with any actual real tangible proof prove BA was ruled out as primary person of interest in this homicide investigation before he died in 2009!?! I would be so impressed to see that proof!
LE use polygraph testing as a tool to get a confession, do they not? I suspect they said he failed the first one to gain a confession out of him.
Also, is there any proof Fred Murray had $4,000.00 on him or is that just what he claims?
There is no proof in the public realm of this, but it is widely believed that the reason he mentioned the $4000 up front to police is he knew that in their investigation they would discover he had withdrawn $4000 cash (an atypical transaction) and he wanted to explain it away right up front instead of it looking even more suspicious later. No reason for Fred to make that detail up if it weren't true - every reason for him to mention it up front if it were true.
That is what I thought too. He did not go car shopping that weekend, but rather he came up to Amherst to give Maura $4,000. LE might find it strange that he took $4,000 in cash out of his bank account that Friday, so he had to come up with a good explanation.
I have never posted here before but I felt it necessary to say that James is in Canada, I was around town this morning and saw one in a coffee shop. I am in Sherbrooke, QC. I didn't take a picture but if necessary I can take one tomorrow.
*saw one of the fliers in a coffee shop.
Take a pic!
That sign on the post is in French, so I would assume he's in Quebec.
Hanson Express: "After Atwood drove away, Faith Westman noticed the Saturn's interior lights switch on and offand witnessed a flurry of activity at the rear of the car, including a person standing at the trunk,according to private investigator John Smith, whospoke with the Westmans after the accident"
John Green - Many moons ago I suggested you pick up the Missing 411 series of books by David Paulides. Did you ever get around to it? Would love to hear a review if you did. TLIK - Clearly BA got hungry and ate MM. Seriously though, it would be great if she was alive. The downside to not finding her is what? Perhaps it is a bit of marketing? If you are in business for yourself you have to shamelessly self-promote or you go out of business. Maybe he can find her. I would have kept it quiet and took long range HD photos or something. This seems like a particularly visible journey. He is at the end of the writing phase from previous entries I've inferred. My only hope is that if he does not find her that he leaves the book open ended enough to not make the mistake of another true-crime author that had his theory obliterated. Henceforth to be referred to as "Ricked" or "Bakered"
The reason why there has been so much fascination with the MM case is due to all of the mysterious circumstances that let the imagination run wild. That's why after almost a decade there are still so many interested people posting and speculating. Now that it looks like there might not be so much mystery to this case it kind of decreases the interest level. If James posts that he in fact has discovered Maura with proof of her existence would the book really be a must read for all of us. I think that he would keep it quite and reveal this in the book. Otherwise it seems like a shut case. MM runs away, her dad gives her $4000 to start a new life, rides in tandem with another person, accidentally crashes car, hops in other car and disappears to Canada. Sounds like her family does in fact know that she is alive and where she is. The only real mystery is what she actually did (legal problems) to warrant this. Did she actually hit that man with the world's most recognized Saturn? I personally believe that Fred does know where Maura is. Started thinking this way when he used to search for her but was more interested in partying, drinking - eating - waking up late instead of actually searching frantically for her.Finally with BA the guy was extremely overweight and diabetic. No way that he could even move fast enough or generate enough energy to do something like that. Also after he left the Saturn's interior lights went on/off and there was movement in the back of the car.Problem is after she is located it kind of takes the fun out of this case and then we can start questioning our own sanity after never loosing interest after so many years. Kind of like a spouse who can't let go and move on after a divorce.
I'm a wee bit confused. I've been reading some of these comments but I don't think I understand the border arrangement between Canada & USA: if Maura entered Canada via the US then wouldn't there be a record of her entering or can you just cross without the border agency recording your entry?
In 2004 you did not need a passport to get in.A photo ID that they just looked at (not enter) and then answer a few questions and you were good to go.
There is also lots of places the boarder is not patrolled or watched. Especially back then you could probably walk on in.
By 2004, you needed a passport to enter Canada.
You could get day passes by showing ID I believe.
@David — I'm a frequent visitor to Quebec from New York State. It was not until 2009 that a passport (or a special enhanced photo ID/driver's license) was required to cross the border. Even then, I think that there might have been some slight exemption for students crossing the border.
Ellis is correct 2009http://us-keepexploring.canada.travel/travel-info/passports-visas
@Jack - Thanks for explaining about 4k that makes sense. :)@rcooper - I was thinking along the same lines about BA. I think he was in some sort of delerious state and hallucinating that Maura was hamburger and ate her. I'm glad we're on the same page.I've been playing around with corel paintshop and tried to colorize and clean up the picture the police took of Maura. I didn't touch up the hair because I think it would've been fairly dark since her hair was pulled back. Here's a couple different versions for anyone interested..http://s16.postimg.org/rxa4l6alx/Image7.jpghttp://s11.postimg.org/n4l0dvokj/maura3ab.jpg
That first one (Image7, or as BA calls it: "dinner" lol) is quite good- could be a useful image to disseminate. Only change I'd make is that Maura's natural eye color is brown (http://someoneismissing.com/massachusetts/maura-murray.htm) - the blue might throw people off.
david w - I like the pics, they really cause me to think that if she is alive she might look worse for wear. Finally someone else agrees about BA!!! muah ha ha!!She could have ran down the street and hid in his school bus since it was warm and thought no one would find her, but BA found her.
http://postimg.org/image/a339whn31/I've taken out all the shadow around the hair, and darkened the eyes... maybe it's better...
david w - add a pencil thin moustachio and soul patch and we've got something. Seriously though, I think that looking at your altered images makes me realize that she may be looking not like a perky co-ed, but a person that has been haggered and running for a long, long time.
Good work, David W. - looks like a very feasible age progression. @rcoopr: your assessment reminds me of Brenda Heist, the PA woman who recently turned up in FL 13 years after she disappeared looking much worse for the wear. Before/After Photo: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/400/img/photos/2013/05/02/52/42/Brenda_Heist.jpg
Jack - Exactly my thought. What if she crawled inside of a bottle and has been there since fleeing. She could look more like a grizzled deckhand from a lobster boat, than the pics we're used to seeing.
Jack - is there proof that BA is dead? is it possible he could be in Canada too?
Hate to pick on the morbidly obese posthumously, but unless Renner outs MM, I will always wonder about BA. Can someone do a criminal background check on the deceased? or on RF? I understand that I hold a multitude of exclusive postulations:), but just as one thing seems more probable, something else seems probable. BA was the last to see her, but RF said he saw someone running, so he could have been the last right?
Obit is online.
For the love of god, are we still trying to suggest that MK is MM?This is getting embarrassing now..
Even more embarrassing will be when Maura K Googles her own name someday (or perhaps a potential employer of hers does) and this thread is what comes up. Oops.
Butch didn't kill her. I think its possible that Forcier was involved, though I doubt he "murdered" her just for the sake of doing so (for lack of a better way to put it).I've mentioned before the possibility that Maura bolted onto Forcier's property and hid out in the unfinished house he was building. Maybe Forcier heard something outside during the night or in the morning, was on high alert due to the previous police presence, confronted Maura and killed her as an intruder on his property.He learns of the "situation" on the news shortly thereafter, and gets rid of the body, thinking that no one would believe his explanation for how/why it happened.This would explain his refusal to allow searches of his trailer - there may not have been anything of use to police when they did eventually search it, but in Forcier's eyes there could have been even if she never actually entered the trailer.Honestly at this point I'm leaning more towards Maura being alive than anything else, but the above scenario makes as much or more sense to me than some one in a hundred million abduction.
This, along with several other "accident" theories (hit by a car, exposure, overdosed locally partying with townies that night) does seem more likely than the abduction theory. That said, I too am leaning toward Maura being alive and hopefully well.