Sunday, February 9, 2014

Murray Family Shuts Down Messageboard After People Grow Suspicious of Fred


Once upon a time, the official Maura Murray page, run by the family, had its own sanctioned messageboard. It was shut down when the community started to realize that Fred was lying to police and the media. The suspicion is addressed in this post, by "Mason" which appeared on a separate blog that has also been deleted. Thanks to the wonders of the Internet, the old post was found earlier today:

According to Google Maps, it's 231 miles from Bridgeport, CT to Haverhill, NH, a three-hour-and fifty-six minute drive. Let's call it four hours.
On January 5, 2006, 23-months after Maura disappeared, Holly Angelo of masslive.com reported that Lieutenant John Scarinza said, "It is also crystal clear the family's initial impression was she [Maura] was in distress and was maybe considering suicide."
Therefore, despite Fred Murray's denial that he told the police he thought Maura might have driven to New Hampshire to commit suicide, Lieutenant Scarinza knew that wasn't true.
What did Fred Murray think about during his solo four-hour drive to Haverhill?
Put yourself in his situation for a moment.
Would you try to call Maura? Would you take a 15-30 minute detour off I-91 to go to Kennedy Hall at UMass to see if your daughter was there? Would you call campus security and ask them to let you into her room? If you didn't have time to stop, would you ask campus security to check her room to see if she was there? Would you call her friends? Would you call Billy Rausch?
We have no evidence that he did any of these things and I find that incomprehensible and extremely troubling. The police were still trying to identify the young woman the SBD saw behind the wheel of the Saturn. Kathleen had emailed them a photograph of Maura, but the SBD wasn't certain that the steak in the photograph was Maura. Fred Murray's conduct tells us he knew that young woman was Maura.
How did he know that unless he picked her up on Route 112?
He doesn't have an alibi.
He had 36 hours to worry about the possibility that someone saw him pick-up Maura. That's a lot of time to strategize. I think he decided to press the suicide theory at first merely to test the waters while pretending to be distraught. If the cops brushed it aside and confronted him telling him that they had a witness who saw him pick-up Maura, he could admit it and claim that he drove a short distance before he realized she was intoxicated and pulled over and stopped. They argued about her drinking problem (which she denied) and her second accident within 48 hours. He told her enough was enough and ordered her to get out of the car and walk back to the accident to face the music and accept responsibility for her "problem." He watched her walk in that direction and then he drove away. He would have added that she was crying, drunk, and depressed and probably walked off into the woods after he drove away.
Notice that this clever lie allows for the possibility of later claiming, after searchers failed to find her body in the area, that a "dirt-bag" must have intercepted her or offered a ride that she accepted to avoid arrest for DUI. When Fred Murray realized that no one saw him or the vehicle he was driving, he switched immediately to some dirt-bag got her and began insisting to all who would listen that his remarks were taken out of context.
By rejecting suicide, wrapping himself in the cloak of the quintessential suffering distraught father, packaging Maura as the innocent All American steak Next Door With The Perfect Life And Everything To Live For, shamelessly promoting and selling this false image, insisting that everything in the past was irrelevant, planting smokescreens and red herrings aplenty to confuse everyone, and constantly berating the NH cops as incompetent, Fred Murray has almost pulled off the perfect crime.

69 comments:

  1. In theory possible but I don't think likely or that there is much positive evidence. Two questions if you believe this: 1)What did he do with her? and 2) Why?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Mr. Renner, with all due respect, you have your forums mixed up. Mason/Leatherman didn't post on the forum generated by the family....at least under that name. And the family generated forum was taken down due to disparaging remarks about the community. I was at one time an administrator on that forum.

    Leatherman/Mason first appeared on Topix. Another forum was then started by another poster named "Advocate" and Mason/Leatherman was a poster on there. I don't know why that forum was discontinued.

    I would think you would want your facts to be correct......and your information in this instance is not correct.

    Lady Gray

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. James,

      Unfortunately, although I am not as certain about it as Lady Gray, I think she is right. I feel that this post of Mason's originally popped up on the original Topix forum - the one that got deleted - but portions of which were resurrected on another site, where - among other things - many of "Weepers" posts were preserved. I could be wrong, but I think Topix was the genesis of this post.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  4. It's one thing to point out discrepancies in what Fred Murray has told police and the media over the years, but it's a whole other thing to suggest he 'almost pulled off the perfect crime'.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is a third thing to suggest that his discrepancies, outright lies, bizarre comments and equivocations indicate that he knows more than he is saying. There is much to support the idea that he has at least some idea of why Maura went up there and perhaps was involved in some situation that caused her to go up there.

      It would be a fourth thing to ignore those indications - that pile of indications.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    2. Yes, I'm not saying that Fred has been absolutely forthcoming. And maybe he does know why Maura took off, and maybe even knows where she is, but where the hell is the evidence that he did physical harm to Maura, which is what the latest batch of blog entries is implying?

      Look, a couple of months ago people were convinced that she was alive in Canada based on an 'eyewitness' account but now they're convinced that Fred killed her based on what, phone calls or the lack of them?

      OK, fine, maybe someone she knew did harm her. I realize that that option has to be considered, but I think people are really reaching when they want to pin this on Fred. There are other options that make more sense, aren't there, given the time between when she crashed and when the police arrived?

      Delete
  5. Sure this would be possible. But there is nothing to support this theory but speculation.

    You could argue that Fred wanting to see the case files was to see if he himself was a suspect. On the other hand if my kid went missing I would like to see the case files if there was no public progress.

    The police could be very quiet on the case because they suspect Fred and therefore only could harm the investigation by going public with the information.

    Anyone could go on and on like this, speculating...

    I think Maura died this day 10 years ago to the day or very soon thereafter. I think its likely her body can be found in the woods along the road where she crashed. Just a bit further than what have been searched real well. I have no opinion on if someone killed her or not.
    I really hope im wrong and Maura is out there and have found a better life for herself.
    I also hope that anyone who cares about Maura and what happened to her takes this day to think about her bright sides. Problem is, reading this blog I would be pretty hard pressed to tell you what they were. Yet her smile makes me smile, this is a big gift. So even though I never knew and never will know her that is what i will remember her for.

    I hope all who cares about Maura does not have to wait another 10 years to know what happened to her.

    ReplyDelete
  6. @James - two months ago you wrote about how close you were to solving this entire thing, and how you knew that Maura was alive and where she was.. Where did all that go?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am really interested in this too James.

      I respect you a lot, but I sometimes get the feeling that you veer into the dramatic and sensational for promotional reasons. Understandable, I suppose, with your profession being what it is in this day and age, but that is not one of the reasons I respect you.

      I'd really like it if you closed this loop. I think if you only open things like that on the blog but don't close them, in anticipation of the book, it does not reflect well on you.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
  7. I think you're giving Fred Murray a hard time here. There have been some interesting revelations over the last year or two, but I've yet to see any solid evidence that Fred is an evil man. If he lied to protect his daughter's reputation, that is to some degree understandable.

    The idea that Fred picked Maura up after the accident is one of the crankiest theories going. Ten years later, I don't see any evidence that disproves the suicide theory, the "dirtbag" theory or the accidental death theory. Based on what I know of the case, I still think a suicide with an undiscovered body is the most likely explanation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Chris.

      I appreciate your thoughtful commentaries here. On this one, I am not so much disagreeing with you, but just wanting to add fodder to the discussion.

      Consider: yearbook pictures of his nieces in the centerfold of a pornographic magazine at his house; ardent efforts to discredit a journalist who has spent enormous amounts of time and money to look for his daughter, before that journalist began to question his role in the case; NOT wanting a book to publicize his missing daughter's case; saying revolting things about his daughter ("we'll find her naked on the top of the mountain"); not participating meaningfully, by at least two accounts, in searches for his daughter, but playing it up for the camera; fabricating at least one element of his story to the UMASS police (that of "picking up Kate in a student lot," which is not at all plausible based on analysis and evidence I collected in June and documented here), along with MANY other contradictions, such as the "suicide" to "dirtbag" transformation; at least three people with no apparent reason for a bias against him, severely questioning his candor, ethics and morality with specific examples that call into question his perspective on his daughter's disappearance; more than a few indications that Maura was abused.

      I do agree with you, nonetheless, that Mason's speculation that Fred had picked up Maura after the Saturn accident is purely speculation. Aside from that, I think his post is insightful, as you do. But still, given the way things went down in Amherst during the five strange days prior to her disappearance - even as accounted for by Fred in his statement to UMASS police - I am not sure it is totally outlandish.

      I tend to agree with James that Fred has some idea about - if not outright knowledge of - why Maura drove north. It thus seems not impossible to me that he might have been up there. For one thing, through interviews with UMASS officals, measuring the various walking and driving distances involved, and by interviewing more than a dozen current and former students who lived in the Southwest Area, I am certain that Fred did not pick up Kate in a student lot on Saturday night. (If you are interested about this concept, I wrote about it in a post on this blog back when Renner gave me the keys.)
      I have said this many times before and I still think it is true. Some larger dynamic, possibly involving a significant crime, is lurking somewhere beneath the surface here and helped to set into motion the events of the five strange days. I think Fred at least has an idea about what that was and it not coming to light is so important to him that it has skewed the information he has put forward about his daughter's disappearance.

      So, just my two cents, I don't think James is giving Fred a harder time than Fred is giving to the truth.

      ~ John Green


      Delete
  8. I don't care where this was originally posted and/or removed from, I think it raises some valid questions about Fred's behavior.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree! I think people are misreading it as James being the writer of the comment. They fail to realize this was something said by someone else. I firmly believe FM knows more than he is saying and I believe the local PD has MMs case sealed from Fm because they suspect him of something. I just hope that regardless of the outcome, dead or alive, James finds answers. He's doing more than any of us and has made more progress than any of us and he is willing to admit when he is wrong- I think we should give him credit for the things he has brought to light for MM case!

      Delete
  9. It is possible to have a theory that doesn't pan out. If in fact, James theory hasn't panned out, then of course the next logical step would be to back to Fred. I do feel for Fred (presuming his is innocent of any wrongdoing) , but the truth is most woman that are killed are killed by either a family member or domestic relation. Billy has the most solid of alibi's so the light of suspicion would fall on fred. I don't know if the track coach had one, but he also stated he found out later she had other partners. It would be interesting to see who they are, what those relationships were like. I highly highly doubt the state police in NH are doing whatever is needed, and I don't think the Mass Police have any involvement. The Murray siblings have asked the public in the past to request the FBI take on the case, but how exactly do we do that? I wouldn't be opposed I would even ask my family and friends to do it. As for this post, I think the bad blood between James and Murray's has to come to head before the book comes out.

    AND If in fact Fred DID have something to do with his daughter's disappearance I think Maura does deserve to have the truth come out.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Has ANY of the pieces of evidnece (especially the rag) ever collected for prints? There are lots of "items" but I haven't heard if any of these items have ever been dusted for prints.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I suggest that the mystery of her disappearance is not what happened on rt112 in NH, rather it is has everything to do with her secretly leaving school that afternoon for a 140+ mile drive alone(?) in darkness towards NH, why not get some sleep and drive more safely in daylight? was she not alone? -a second car perhaps? -was she traveling with someone that needed to use the night to conceal their own whereabouts or involvement? --focusing solely on rt112 discounts the real mystery -what were her plans and intentions when she "disappeared" from school that afternoon? being recorded by cctv in the liquor store and witness contact at the crash site are almost incidental to her disappearance, no crash means no review of liquor store cctv and no rt112 sighting, but she would be missing and her whereabouts unknown just the same based on what we now know of her subterfuge

    ReplyDelete
  12. Is there some way to get to the source of the "Londonderry Ping"? I think the name of that caller would more than likely lead to solving this mystery. The records must still exist in some form, somewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  13. We all make the mistake of assuming that the facts we have are all that law enforcement has. All of us only see what people want us to see! Besides that, I do believe that Maura was running from Fred. I believe that his actions in the last couple of days suggest that Maura knew something about Fred and Fred was willing to "pay her" in exchange for her silence. Perhaps like a "Georgia Rule" scenario if any of you have seen that movie. But in the end, Maura had her own plans and bolted. Not only would she have pissed Fred off by no longer allowing him control over her or access to her if indeed she was a victim, but she also drew attention to him which is exactly what he was trying to avoid. No man in their right mind speaks the way about his daughter that Fred has, namely...she is probably on top of some mountain naked. If Fred was up on rt 112 that night, I doubt it was because Maura called him. He may have been following her but i suggest it was as a posessive abuser, not accomplice or concerned father. If Maura was running away, I doubt she will come forward until Fred is dead. Abusers often say disparaging things about their victims in order to cast doubt on anything they say. If Fred calls Maura suicidal then should she come forward and speak, she now has a shadow of doubt cast on the validity of her words. I am fairly new to reading this case and I dont know Fred, but I do know liars and abusers and I have no doubt in my mind that Fred Murray is both. He was so angry and not in control of his anger that he has made several mistakes from a PR standpoint that he has no recourse but to back track and try to retract what he said. But the first words out of his mouth always have been angry and derrogatory from what I have read...on impulse. After he gains composure of himself, he gets calculating. That explains the discrepancies in what he says. Thats my postulate!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fred's comment about Maura being found on top of a mountain naked is not as sinister as it sounds (IMO). Fred and Maura were avid hikers who both know that if you are suffering from hypothermia, a sympton (right before you die) is to strip off all your clothes, because you begin to feel like you are burning. Fred initially thought Maura took off for the White Mountains to take her own life (drink herself to death). So she would likely have suffered hypothermia (if she did in fact follow through) and would've likely experienced what is termed paradoxical undressing.

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the info Clint. Actually, you don't feel like you are burning when you have severe hypothermia - at least in what I have read. But you do feel that you are no longer cold. People who have frozen to death are often found to have shed their coats and lied down as if comfortable. In fact, one of the stories in "Not Without Peril" relates such a case. I think the burning you may be thinking of is associated with a thawing limb that has gotten gangrened in sever cold.

      In any case, I don't think the comment was sinister. It is simply strange and suggests a lack of the kinds of emotions you would expect and that are frequently observed in a parent in that situation.

      Moreover, even if hypothermia makes you feel burning, your implication that Fred was simply alluding to its effects does not make sense to me, given the context of the comment, a toast he offered at a bar on the night of a search that he called off fairly early in the day. In effect, under your reasoning, he toasted, "here here, we'll find Maura near death at the top of the mountain!" The fact remains that the mood of his toast was inappropriate and this is not the only information we have about Fred's inappropriate and odd behaviors toward Maura.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    3. This is the first thing that came up on a google search about Paradoxical Undressing.

      Paradoxical Undressing — Paradoxical undressing is a term for a phenomenon frequently seen in cases of lethal hypothermia. Shortly before death, the person will remove all their clothes, as if they were burning up, when in fact they are freezing. Because of this, people who have frozen to death are often found naked and are misidentified as victims of a violent crime.

      Delete
    4. Also,

      Fred wasn't toasting anyone when he made his comment. It was during the early days after maura went missing and he and Tim were searching when he pointed to the mountains and said they would find maura up there drunk and naked.

      Fred initially told police he felt his daughter went to the white mountains to harm herself. This fits in with that line of thinking at the time.

      Fred had also told all his kids, that if he ever got to a point in life where he felt worthless, he would head for the mountains and drink himself to death.

      Fred has achieved 48 summits (on hikes if that is the proper way to say it) He and Maura were both avid hikers.

      Delete
    5. Hi Clint:

      I don't know what your source is, because you did not provide it. But I know a lot about hypothermia and have read extensively about cases of hypothermia. People who died of are often found to have taken off clothing, particularly protective layers, in bitter cold, and were found dead, in positions suggesting they were lying comfortably. One was even, apparently, propped on his elbows and reading a book.

      There may be cases of people feeling they are burning up and stripping madly. But even if so - as I said earlier, in a point you did not address - that means that Fred was saying "well find her tomorrow naked and dead of hypothermia." Still a weird thing to say.

      But as to the real point I addressed - your point to which these facts were geared to support, that Fred's statement was innocuous - the basis of my refutation of that is intact. Here are Tim's quotes, which can also be found at: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/search?q=naked

      "He was weird about it. Me. If it was my daughter, I'd a been outside at the crack of dawn, starting the searches every day. Him, he'd get up maybe ten a.m. and I'd say, 'we better get started.' Then he'd stop about five and bring everyone to the restaurant and start drinking and it would be a party."

      "I remember him pointing up to the mountain and saying, 'She walked up there. We'll find her at the top. Drunk and naked.' Why naked?"

      Tim talks about the "naked" statement as an example of Fred being "weird" about Maura's disappearance. Thus, the quote itself is an expression of Tim's opinion that Tim formed while searching for Maura. For you to conclude that that statement is not weird (again, I don't think and did not say it was sinister, per se, just bizarre and troubling), you have to (1) dismiss Tim's opinion and he was there, and (2) think that Fred saying we'll find Maura naked and dead from hypothermia at the top of the mountain tomorrow is not bizarre and troubling.

      So I go back to my original point about your post. I don't think Fred's statement was sinister, but like many of his actions and statements, it is bizarre and out of kilter with what you would expect from a parent in his situation. If there were isolated incidents of this only, that would be one thing, but there is a long record of lying and obfuscating and saying bizarre things.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    6. That's a lot of words John.

      I guess, I just don't find many of fred's behaviors that odd, because I truly believe he (knew) his daughter was deceased just days after she went missing.

      His public plea very early on was to her, it was not to a "local dirtbag" to safely return her.

      I believe fred attempted desperately to get police to understand (in the first few days) that his daughter came to the white mountains to harm herself and they need to do something to stop her from doing it. And when those first few days passed, it was already too late.

      If you notice, Fred only wants to talk about those first 24 to 48 hours now a days.

      Fred is all about pointing out how police screwed up and let his daughter get away.

      Fred is not about reaching out to a boogeyman, because he thinks she is still alive somewhere.

      That is why, I think he doesn't want to go into details about his daughter's past and that is why (out of frustration) he might've pointed to the mountains and said to tim, we will find her up there.

      Delete
    7. He said it was the first result in a google search on the topic. That sounds like the source for the reference to me, John.

      Delete
  14. IMHO it's kind of creepy, I would never say that about my daughter.

    ReplyDelete
  15. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Enough with the facts, how about some pure speculation bordering on fiction:

    The story begins… girl tells father that she hit pedestrian on campus causing near fatal injures and her car is damaged, but so far her involvement has gone undetected; father quickly comes to town with cash for a local shop to do the repairs unreported; shop person blackmails girl and father for additional sum of cash to keep quiet about the hit and run; father pays the additional cash to the blackmailer; girl missing & appears to have been abducted; girl is now publicly listed as an endangered missing person; hit and run car damage was a scam and girl was in with the blackmailer for a share of the cash; father is left to wonder what happened; once father is no longer a threat - girl can return with a good story and resume an otherwise regular life and career with all other incidental problems of her past long since forgotten …roll credits

    Or maybe some would prefer this version:

    The story begins… girl tells father that she hit pedestrian on campus causing near fatal injures and her car is damaged, but so far her involvement has gone undetected; father quickly comes to town with cash for a local shop to do the repairs unreported; shop person blackmails girl and father for a large sum of cash to keep quiet about the hit and run; father will not pay the cash to the blackmailer and tells girl it is time to face the music; girl knows better and plans to disappear to avoid criminal charges - and so on a dark and lonely road she appears to be abducted after crashing her car to conceal the prior damage; girl is publicly listed as an endangered missing person; father is left to wonder what happened; once the statute of limitations for the hit and run charges has pasted - girl can return with a good story and resume an otherwise regular life and career with all other incidental problems of her past long since forgotten …roll credits

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Doesn't make sense! If she or FM were being blackmailed her disappearance wouldn't have stopped it. If she went missing I believe the blackmailer would still be after FM or would have went to authorities and told them the young lady tried to blackmail them before disappearing. Also, MM has not been connected to or charged for the hit and run of Vasi nor does he remember any incident of the night. There's no evidence that she hit this person or that the person was hit at all no matter how many fingers point to MM being the driver who hit him.

      Delete
    2. I think your speculation is interesting. For various reasons that I wrote about here in June, I feel it is more likely than not that the Vasi hit is in some way implicated in the five strange days leading to Maura's disappearance. The possibility of blackmail is worth considering, although so many possibilities are real ones in this case that speculation is unbounded. The appeal of that scenario, for me, is that I am convinced that something was going on in Maura's life that set the five strange days in motion. That something probably involving her family, that they STRONGLY don't want it to come out. I think it probably involves something illegal. As to MrsForman's comment, we don't know for a fact that the blackmail has stopped. Now, do I think a blackmail scenario is likely? No. But what scenarios ARE likely? Whatever was going on, it will be one of many unlikely possibilities that we now confront. I think you would have to be naive or pretentious to assume that a strange and disturbing subplot was not setting events into motion.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    3. To Mr John Green Id just like to say I love reading your replies you always have an answer do your know the family?

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  17. Going back to the beginning of this, it is said that Maura received a disturbing phone call and when asked said it was her sister. Has anyone come forward and owned up to being the one who made the call to her or has anyone investigated just who made the call and what it was about? Seems to me that this may have been the point she decided to leave. Is it possible that it could have been Fred on the phone with her?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From what I have read, nothing was ever linked to the phone conversation and no one (friends, family, coworkers) had any idea who it could have been. I'm wandering if phone records were ever pulled for her work phone from that night and if a number was found that could be tracked or at least slimmed down to someone.

      Delete
    2. Hi KimO.

      One clarification. My understanding is that Maura did not say the call was from her sister. Instead, when confronted by the supervisor who had been summoned because Maura was upset, Maura - who that supervisor described as being in a hebephrenic statement - looked at her phone on the desk, then pointed at it and said "my sister." The supervisor said, in her statement to Renner, that there were rules about using cell phones during the shift but that that clearly did not matter to her (the supervisor) given Maura's obvious upset. What I take away from the supervisor's statement is that Maura probably was making an effort to downplay the significance of having broken the rules - maybe on autopilot, in the way a person in the shock of an accident will sometimes say or do mundane things - by saying, in effect, "oh, I was just talking to my sister." I concluded, for what it is worth, that whatever upset Maura had nothing to do with any calls she made or got on her cell phone. Whatever it was either came to her via a person entering the door, or calling her on the desk phone.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    3. I often wonder about Maura's "catatonic" state at her security job. I've received calls of a death of an immediate family member when I was her age, and did not go into an almost catatonic state. She also was in a good enough frame of mind to figure out a lie about having a roommate while in this "catatonic" state. I think it was a sham.

      Delete
  18. Every time I come to this site, the theories get crazier and crazier. Maura is either dead or she's in hiding. If she's in hiding, Fred likely knows more than he's saying, or perhaps he suspects more than he's saying. Or maybe Fred has psychological issues that have nothing to do with this case, and that causes him to say and do strange things. Having the hots for your cousin(s)--if that was even the case--is not unheard of. Or maybe the pictures ended up there by mistake. It's really nobody's business. I seriously doubt Fred harmed his daughter in any way. Some of you need to find another hobby.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your baseline of reality for criticizing others seems to be your conviction in your own intuitive, non-fact based command of the case, in which Fred only knows more if Maura is in hiding and - with no support of any kind other than a strong belief in your own thoughts - you "seriously doubt Fred harmed his daughter in any way."

      You are right about in your first statement though. I just noticed.

      In other words: what is the point of criticizing others, particularly when your own ideas are so scattershot. Perhaps you need a new hobby?

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    2. Lol ~ John Green I love reading your replies you always have an answer do you know the Murray family?

      Delete
  19. One thing I failed to mention yesterday is that suicidal people often start giving away their belongings. They dont pack them up to take with them. They also typically leave notes for loved ones tehy are leaving behind. They do this because they hate themselves or hate their own lives. They dont kill themselves because they want to ruin someone elses life. If they have a family left, they care about at least one person and they want to ease taht persons pain after their death, hence the explanatory suicide notes. Suicide is counter inuitive to any creature. Our survival mechanisms are innate. Something goes wrong in the brains of suicide victims to make them act against nature in such a way. Anyways, I am not a doctor, but I do have some experience with the subject as I have had a couple people in my life commit suicide. I am a voracious researcher when I have questions and my questions on the death of my friends led me to the answer that most people who are about to commit suicide give their belongings away and attempt closure of some variety with their friends and family. Also on the Fred Murray note, there is a reason why peoples weirdo alarms are going off. Think of all the people you know. Now think of all the people you consider to be weirdos or having something not quite right about them. I guarantee it is a tiny fraction of all the people you are acquainted with. This should tell you that our red flags dont go up with everyone. They go up for a reason. Even more significant is when many, many people get weird feelings about the behavior of one person. It is not arbitrary that so many people find something wrong with Fred Murray's behavior. The greatest injustice we do ourselves is questioning our instincts. It's how we get hurt. Stieg Larsson highlights this fact in his Girl With The Dragon Tattoo trilogies. Thats all :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. chefsgirl
      I agree... our instincts are our best radars...

      Delete
  20. This may be a strange question... but why is the word 'girl' replaced with 'steak' in the quoted post? i.e.

    Kathleen had emailed them a photograph of Maura, but the SBD wasn't certain that the steak in the photograph was Maura.

    ...packaging Maura as the innocent All American steak Next Door With The Perfect Life And Everything To Live For...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wondered the same thing. Thought it was a colloquialism, albeit a chauvenistic one!

      Delete
    2. This seems to have been a tradition among a group of Topix posters who were active years ago. I think it is clique-ishness more than anything else and they had other code words. That one always disturbed me too. Many of people in the Topix clique are pretty disturbed, as you can see from their posts, but it is more evident when you meet some of them personally, as I have had the pleasure of doing. Also, I think some of the so called, self-trumpeted league of investigators - who were really just play actors - liked to use phrases and code words that suggested they were grizzled insiders. That one may have originated with one of those investigators in their voluminous online writings full or pointless hide-the-ball rhetorical or socratic questions, which no real PI would engage in.

      ~ John Green

      Delete
    3. "Governor Lynch, you represent my final hope to help my cilantro steak."
      ~ Fred Murray

      I suppose this is evidence that he was familiar with Topix ...



      Delete
    4. Topix user Advocate responded to this in Topix on Tuesday, February 11.
      http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T0DQUJ4P593IE7SE6/p2162?redirid=1386614140
      -----------------------------------

      Yes, the word "steak" in place of the word "girl" identifies the post as being from my forum, I am pretty sure. The original host company of that forum -- company called Forumer, I think -- for some reason replaced some words in postings with other words, after the forum was closed by me.

      Also, I should probably clarify something ... my FIRST forum was the one hosted by Forumer, and it didn't cost me anything. After a while, I decided to set up what became my SECOND forum -- which gave more options to posters -- and that was the one that I paid for (to own the domain, etc.). So the FIRST forum was just more or less abandoned, and content moved to the SECOND forum. It was the second forum that eventually died because posters weren't using it, so then I chose not to renew and continue to pay. That SECOND forum completely vanished when I didn't renew it ... so what is found out there nowadays is material from the FIRST (Forumer) forum.

      I hope this all helps :)

      -----------------------------------

      Delete
  21. I think what can get confusing here is the fact that the family is clearly full of addicts. I believe Fred to be (or formerly) an alcoholic, which can be the other explanation (besides covering something up) for his actions. Maybe he went to the bar the first night or second night because he was an addict. Maybe he called the searches off to go drink. Maybe he made outlandish statements because he was intoxicated. Maura was a drinker, her mom was a drinker, and I think it's safe to say that Fred is/was a drinker. This creates many alternate plausible scenarios and ideas.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Round 2- when I created the stories earlier in this thread the idea was to allow for the exchange of certain elements while keeping the story intact, so here goes Round 2, I intentionally keep certain details unspoken to allow for even more variation; I leave the ending much the same in both of these so the girl has the money to disappear and start a new life

    this is not intended to be entertainment, but instead it gives us a chance to step back from focusing solely on the minutia of this case and look at a broader canvas of viable scenarios, you know the forest and trees thing

    Enough with the facts, how about some pure speculation bordering on fiction:

    The story begins… girl tells father that she is pregnant, but so far the involvement of her lover has gone undetected; disclosing the pregnancy & lover's identity would damage her future; father quickly comes to town with cash to help her out; person blackmails girl and father for additional sum of cash to keep quiet about what is known of the affair; father pays the additional cash to the blackmailer; girl missing & appears to have been abducted; girl is now publicly listed as an endangered missing person; pregnancy was a scam and girl was in with the blackmailer for a share of the cash; father is left to wonder what happened; once father is no longer of any concern - girl can return with a good story and resume an otherwise regular life and career with all other incidental problems of her past long since forgotten …roll credits

    Or maybe some would prefer this alternate Round 2 version:

    The story begins… girl tells father that she is an addict and involved in other criminal behavior, but so far her involvement in the elicit activities needed to fund her addition has gone undetected; she is indebted to a criminal actor as a result; disclosing the truth would damage her future and slander the family name; father quickly comes to town with cash to help her out; person blackmails girl and father for additional sum of cash to keep quiet about what is known of her activities; father pays the additional cash to the blackmailer; girl missing & appears to have been abducted; girl is now publicly listed as an endangered missing person; it was all a scam and girl was in with the blackmailer for a share of the cash; father is left to wonder what happened - did the criminal actors involved harm the girl; once father is no longer of any concern - girl can return with a good story and resume an otherwise regular life and career with all other incidental problems of her past long since forgotten …roll credits

    ReplyDelete
  23. I suspect that some readers may need more to understand the full scope of the stories posted above, I will provide that here with the option to delete this if it is found to be offensive: story 1 think incest; story 2 think prostitution; remember these are only stories; try to keep an open mind - no malice is intended - but these things do happen

    ReplyDelete
  24. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Fred Murray should submit his credit card records for Feb 2004 through Feb 2005, then one would see what he is doing after-the-fact. Traveling, etc... purchases.

    And, if he has nothing to hide, this would remove him from suspicion. There's no reason he shouldn't do it.

    But I feel he is not telling the truth -- about any one thing. And Maura is alive somewhere in french speaking country, or Canada. I believe she knew french. She couldn't have left on her own. She had help.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She studied German, and knew very little of it. I believe it's on one of the first posters that were put out.

      Delete
  26. There's definitely something wrong with Fred's story. I wouldn't doubt that he has been a person of interest from the very beginning, but from the lack of evidence, they couldn't officially name him as a suspect. No wonder they won't release the case documents to him.

    ReplyDelete
  27. John Green, I do not believe you should be instructing James Renner on professional. This case would be in better shape with fewer so-called authorities imho

    ReplyDelete
  28. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I see that you changed the post, at some point, to state that Mason's post "appeared on a separate blog that has also been deleted. Both messageboards were taken down shortly there after." Thanks for clarifying this.

    ReplyDelete
  30. "Once upon a time, the official Maura Murray page, run by the family, had its own sanctioned messageboard."

    True

    "It was shut down when the community started to realize that Fred was lying to police and the media."

    I wasn't there, but not to my knowledge.

    "The suspicion is addressed in this post, by "Mason" which appeared on a separate blog that has also been deleted."

    The deletion had nothing to do with the suspicion.

    "Both messageboards were taken down shortly there after."

    You mean Topix and Advocate's forum, not the forum at mauramurraymissing.com

    "Thanks to the wonders of the Internet, the old post was found earlier today:"

    The post has been up for months to my knowledge - I am not a forum monitor - but I suppose its been up almost continuously since it was made. The forum host company changed to Yuku some time between when the post was made and now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mason was never a member at the "family...sanctioned messageboard" and therefore he did not "address" a "suspicion" resulting from the "community start[ing] to realize that Fred was lying to police and the media."

      "Both messageboards" specifically "a separate blog" and "the official Maura Murray page, run by the family" were not "taken down shortly there after."

      Again, the "family['s] "own sanctioned messageboard" was closed in late 2007. This was at least a year prior to Mason's post.

      I am writing this because facts are important. Not because I have some secret agenda. If your investigation is about gathering facts - make sure you have them exactly as they were, otherwise you are self subordinating.

      You should note that it is better to tell you this than to 1.) silently allow you to self destruct, or 2.) to declare that you have straightened out the misleading or incorrect parts of your post when you have not.

      Delete
    2. Let's assume, for the sake of the argument, that Suzanne and James are correct: MauraMurrayMissing was deleted shortly after May 2, 2009. That still would not suggest that Mason's post (on Advocate's forum) caused the deletion. Logically, the opposite is true; a negative post on a competing forum could be met with a positive post on the Murrays forum.

      Delete
    3. Maybe a few people might glean a logical fallacy that contradicts the clear intent of the message. All that does is convince the informed that anything asserted on this blog could be matetially misstated...and only remedied by conducting logical acrobatics to find out what the facts really are. I would hope that is not the impression he wants to leave.

      Additionally...I am not keen on presuming an assertion is true when I have sufficient evidence to bekieve it is false.

      Delete
  31. Again...why the message bored was shut down..... Renner is making a total guess on this... what are the facts..

    ReplyDelete
  32. If you read the police report from 2005, there is also the fact that a Col. Grey Poupon was in the NH area that day. I know for a fact he was seen at a rummage sale buying some candlesticks. Has anyone thought that he may have saw Maura needing assistance and offered her help?

    ReplyDelete
  33. WELCOME TO THE GREAT ILLUMINATI AND LIVE A LIFE: Are you a BUSINESSMAN and WOMAN, POLITICIAN, ARTIST OR ACTRESS, STUDENT and you desire WEALTH, INFLUENCE, FAMOUS, POWER AND PROTECTION and lot more join the great illuminati today,and become a full Multi billionaires by joining the Great illuminati world to benefits $250000 weekly and $1000000 monthly as membership blessing for joining the member of the illuminati. with this all your dreams and your heart desire can be fully accomplish, for more information contact: famousilluminatiworldwide@gmail.com, CALL +234_811_5638_666, join and experience the different.

    ReplyDelete
  34. am jane i am married with three kids we were so happy, untill i lost my job.things became so head with me and my family there was no money to pay the children school fees,no money to pay for house rent,and back home my mun became sick.my younger brother call me that my mun was very sick, that i should send money home for her treatment ,and my last boy was also sick.it was like the world has come to an end.i called all my friends for help no one was ready to help me,to make every thing worse my husband became so worried,and he left act of frustration and i love him so much.I became mad in the streets of new york,until i called a friend friend who introduce me to one spell caster.at first i never believe him till when he started telling things i have pass through and he told me the cause of my problems and how i will go about it . to my greatest surprise three days after thinggs tsated changing for good he said if it work for me i should come back with my testimony.in less than one weeks my husband called me that he was coming back. my company also called me saying they were so sorry for all they made me pass through that i have been promoted,and it comes with an official apartment and a good car.that they were ready to pay those mouths that i was not with them.it was like a magic to me. so friends if u are in any related problems or need help contact him with this EMAIL,doctorebosethegreatspellcaster@gma­il.com

    ReplyDelete
  35. WARNING! WARNING!! WARNING!!! If you do not want to join the Illuminati do not read this message. Rules * You must be above 18 years of age. * You must have full access to the internet. * You must not discuss the secret of the Illuminati to anyone. * We are not interested in anyone who has obtained their knowledge about the Illuminati based on what they%u2019ve HEARD from Mass Media (News or Performing Arts), Conspiracy Theorists (Amateur or Professional Authors or Speculators), Internet Rumors, or other HERESY. * Once you join the Illuminati within one week of your membership you will achieved the greatest goal in life and also have wealth and fame. * No one discard the message of the GREAT ILLUMINATI if discarded the person will be tormented both day and night. * Failure to compel to the order and rules of the GREAT ILLUMINATI shall see your fame and riches taken back. * The money ALWAYS flows TOWARDS Illuminati members...And AWAY from NON Illuminati members... One of the rules of the Illuminati is "We don't talk about the Illuminati" so I can't say too much about it here. If you are truly interested and get back to me via email?.illuminatiagentluistemple@gmail.com or call +2349034677610 Do not play mind games

    ReplyDelete