Friday, June 20, 2014

Commenter Notices Something About Fred's Interview with Montel Williams

I've watched Fred's interview with Montel Williams a couple times but I never realized how odd this statement from Fred sounds.

Frequent commenter chefsgirl lays it out:

I just read the following lines that Fred Murray said on the show: 
[Fred]: Yes which is uh what frustrates me so much now because that means that when the police got there she was no more than 200 yards down the street, all they had to do was drive down around the corner, they coulda grabbed her and Maura would be here with me now. But they didn’t do that and she is not here with me now 
There are a few things alarming about this to me. The first is he said the Police "could have grabbed her". Interesting choice of words for someone who believed his daughter was in distress and needed help. Why not say they "could have helped her or found her?" Instead he says grabbed, which is an aggressive word used to describe an attempt at reaching something that is fleeing or moving swiftly. Also, he said that "she would be here with me now" . He actually used this twice. It is a very possessive statement. Perhaps not if coupled by a concern also for her well being and wishes, but when stated only by itself, it is very selfish and possessive and testifies to how he views her disappearance...an infraction on him. There is a lot to be said about word choice because our brains and our mouths do not operate at the same speed. And Freud said there are no such things as accidents :)

Clearly, this story from Fred contradicts his theory that she was taken by some dirtbag and implies that she believed she was running away. And it sounds like she was running away from him.

61 comments:

  1. I agree. The word "grabbed" is a very aggressive choice of words. It makes no sense when used in conjunction with Maura's situation. A kidnapper or a rapist "grabs" a woman; not the police.

    Based entirely on my own personal analysis of Fred Murray's statements, I have concluded that Fred was not up there to buy a car, and that he knows why Maura came to his hotel that night.

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  2. I just don't see anything here that is contradictory. I think Fred was just questioning why the search was not conducted easterly.The time frame from when she was last seen until when LE showed up was such a small timeline. I believe he is saying that if LE went east then they may have found her before the dirtbag picked her up. A dirtbag doesn't have to pick someone up at the crash site. A dirtbag could have picked her up after she turned the bend on the dark stretch of 112.

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    1. I agree. I think Fred is saying they could have "grabbed her" meaning that she was likely trying to evade police due to concerns about being arrested for intoxicated driving. Fred has admitted before that the evidence points to the fact that Maura was intoxicated.

      As for "be here with me now" -- how sad is it that if a mother said that we'd empathize with her pain but since a father said it there's a rush to label it as "possessive." In that moment he's expressing his pain/feeling of loss. Doesn't mean he's not concerned about Maura.

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    2. MM requested the tow truck driver who showed up after the accident tow her father's car back to the hotel where he was located. She hitched a ride from the tow truck driver back to the hotel. Typically if you're going with the tow truck driver he's only going to drop you off where the car is going - it's not a taxi service. MM was likely drunk and doubtful she would know where to have car towed (garage) and otherwise wanted to get out of thw spotlight.

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    3. Fred's wording is often very foreign to me, very rough and blue-collar. "Grabbed" is such a violent word, compared to "found" or "helped." "She would be here with me now" IS very possessive. Is that what Fred wanted for Maura-to be by his side for life? Fred doesn't mention something like," She would be back in college, or on her way to marriage and a family of her own. Or "I could be standing here with my first grandchild."Also, calling his missing daughter his "buddy" has always seemed so cold and distant to me, like a pet dog rather than a beloved missing daughter.

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  3. The issue is that Fred uses the word "grabbed" when speaking of the POLICE finding Maura. The contradiction is that a word like that is not used when people speak in terms of HELPING another person. When a woman is "grabbed" it is because she is being kidnapped, raped, or murdered. It makes no sense to use it conjunction with Maura being "saved" from disappearing. He is using a very aggressive word when he imagines Maura getting the help she needed that night. The question is why?

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    1. Your child is missing from a rural area with an insular and limited police department which didn't conduct a search for almost two days. You know she has a drinking problem. You know she has an eating disorder and is therefore living with some messed up organs. You asked the local LE to immediately call in the FBI but another day goes by. You also find out local LE doesn't have any training or protocol in place to manage this situation and, as such, no one responding to the scene looked for her down the road and LE in neighboring towns was not notified. What words would you use? Would your choice of words be anything but raw, primal, emotional? Come on blog peeps. You have to play fair. You can't legitimately and believability be calling people out and making vague accusations without backing up your theory. If you suspect MM Dad or believe she ran away to be with a secret lover OE that the old lady living in a shoe abducted her, back it up.

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    2. Fred also didn't talk to the police about his missing daughter for two years. I think that's more telling about Fred than anything else.

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  4. Police departments with enough money to keep one on payroll employee forensic psychologists (the same individuals that build criminal profiles) to extract information solely on the word choices used in interrogation and interviews. It is an extremely effective method of narrowing down searches to specific directions and people.

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  5. It is not uncommon to use the verb "grab" in the sense that one would mean "to pull someone out of a dangerous situation" or "out of the clutches of some bad person/ threat".
    I don't know if it is because I am from NH, but that phrase just doesn't sound aggressive to me...It is something I could see myself saying.
    As for the phrase, "here with me now", I think it is meant to express his personal loss.

    I think Fred has been less than open and truthful, but this stuff is a stretch. I just don't see it.

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    1. I agree 100%. To try and dissect something word for word to this extent is a huge stretch IMO. Come on folks the guy has a missing daughter and you expect him to be literally correct is just absurd - with that said, I still believe that she was running from him and her struggles of life. Maura was not able to please her controlling dad. I don't feel that he knows where she is however.

      Fred may feel Maura was running away from him and her life but doesn't feel it is like Maura to never contact him or anyone else for that matter so in his mind she was grabbed by a dirtbag. He will not admit to others that she may have been running from him for this reason and the reason that there may be other skeltons in the closet.

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  6. My problem is that, based upon Fred Murray's own personal dictionary, the term "grabbed" has been associated MANY times with the "dirt bag" who killed her.

    Fred Murray himself uses this word when discussing how he thinks Maura was kidnapped and murdered. Again, it is very odd that he would use that same word when speaking of Maura's rescuers.

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  7. While I respect your opinions , I think it is nit picking. Fred seems like a simple man who loved his daughter. I think he made some mistakes with her with undo pressure. I do think he knows more about the family dynamics but will not face the demons because it is easier to blame it on a dirtbag than come to the realization that she was running from him . With that said, I don't think he knows much more than that.

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    1. I think it has more to do with his emotional state rather than what he does or does not know. When I see him used the word "grabbed" in connection with the police, it makes me think that he is very angry with Maura. I see this word, something he has otherwise associated with an act of violence, as his rage seeping into his language. I think he has a certain level of aggression towards Maura for running away. I also think he has always had a very forceful way of dealing with his daughter. Recall Kathleen as describing him as a father that "pushed them hard". He associates control and forcefulness with "helping" Maura.

      To me, this is just a small bit of evidence that points to reasons why Maura ran away and never contacted her family again.

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    2. According to his first statements to the media (shown in Disappeared) FM begs Maura to make contact so they can work out whatever problems she had. It's always been my understanding that his original feeling was that she ran away and/or suicide. So, that doesn't contradict his earliest reactions. He may have decided on dirtbag theory later because it gives him
      some weird sense of hope.

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  8. You guys are way over-analyzing this. Fred could have used the word "grab" simply because based on the bus driver's account, Maura wanted nothing to do with the police. So Fred would obviously realize that Maura wouldn't go with the police willingly, but he could by saying they could have "grabbed" her against her will if that's what it took to save her life. Obviously as a father, Fred would want the police to do anything to keep her safe, even if it is against her will. Keep in mind, that is also with Fred using 20/20 hindsight of knowing that she was never seen again and her fate was, and still is, unknown.

    But seriously, it's this type of psycho-analyzing that I can see how Fred would be reluctant to have James write a book about it. James seems to be taking even the most minute detail and holding them against Fred. As if any of us have never used poor choice words before. The difference is, we don't usually have someone psycho-analyzing every minute detail of what we say, twist them, and then plan on publishing a book about it.

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    1. I have to agree. This issue with Fred is like extra ,extra virgin olive oil. How much squeezing until it's not?( pretty enigmatic metaphor!) Fred has been grating on his guilt for a decade. I have to lean with: He probably was let down with Maura and the WestPoint switch. I also speculate( yes people, isn't that what all this is? I haven't traveled to the scene! I know some have.)
      that Fred (like any father) wanted to not exploit his daughters personal hurdles. 4k not enough for a car? Then she does 10 grand of damage later that day! I'd be pissed, then cool down, but how much of this stuff was happening? In 3 days, quite a bit. Back to ff-94, I agree, so much speculation on a man's word's. From what I saw on Disappeared, Fred seemed to use a lot of the same words, and his dialect is his own, and that hasn't changed. Maura threw a curve on everyone before they knew what was happening( in ref to that "death in the family" ) and then she got in a shit storm. I still think she was lured into a seemingly safe escape, and the spider had her. Kudos ff1ee- JAS

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    2. Admitting I step away to address my life and personal cases, and month after month, JR let's a little out (or who ever) a little more, but the London berry ping is intriguing, but why was it stated that Maura needed to use phone cards, and then the call her boy friend got was from a calling card( so said) this is why they cant trace what she was calling from. So I guess the cell phone record's from the mom-in-law would have some info, but why calling cards, and a cell phone. Did it get taken away from "Stud" when he caught wind of Maura's less than admirable sex life? I really believe all parties involved knew Maura was being self destructive, and she maybe felt personally abandon by loved ones. Nobody uses a cell then a calling card unless they are trying to conceal their presence, which makes a point. I would really like a true list of facts. So typical, this case has turned into a 800lb silent gorilla! When Jim publishes, maybe there will be a blitz on Ontario, and a radius of the wreck site. I hope James is correct(if he is Maura, people will be more angry at you, not the money you borrowed!) That's when I'm going to take a trip. Just the efforts of research by all the minds that have participated has had to help James w/ his writings, and other Documentarian's. Complements to the serious non offensive thinkers and to all reading, this is easily the(triple digits) that I've (TV) witnessed the Law dropping the ball. It's unfair to direct it at them, because others did too. When I ran a large company, and a major fhopah occurred, I liked getting all parties in the room and let them point fingers! Wouldn't it be cool if we could turn the clock back and do that?. I'm rambling, that means stop. Thanks all, it's been interesting, but I'm out(again) until Jim publishes. Then we'll see what he stirs up! Everyone get your Passports! I'll say it. MM is within a 5 mile radius of the Saturn wreck. I had friends of friends dive into bushes to avoid a dui. Maura just had to be present and any male would stop to help(good or bad intentions) and probably think it was Christmas to have this seemingly helpless lovely jump into the car and say go- go- go! I hope I'm wrong, but I hear there was a 3 minute window, up 10. Back to my want of chronological facts. So would all! Until next November, be good everyone, and detectives, don't break the rules.(PI's). Thanks for brain candy, and as always, condolence's to the Murray family, and thanks to James Renner for answering questions personally to all. That's something no investigative writer provides his fans, so everyone thank JR. JAS

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  9. Willing to be wrong, but I don't think FM had any nefarious involvement with the disappearance of MM. He seems very focused on his image even to the detriment of the search for MM, and probably raked her over the coals after wrecking his car. Some people can't stop attacking verbally and emotionally once they find an opening.

    Scenario:
    MM drops drunk dad off at hotel and goes partying in his new car. She wrecks it and knows she is screwed. The cop takes pity on her because she bursts out crying with how this wreck will ruin her academically, financially, legally, relationally, a criminal record, and he just has the car towed back to the hotel with her (odd, never heard of a wrecked car being towed to a hotel, always a repair shop).
    She wakes up FM and confesses the car wreck and in the process also confesses the credit card fraud, the deal with the prosecutor to keep her record clean and how the wreck could ruin her if it is reported on her record.
    FM flays her verbally and emotionally and tells her that it may well still come back to bite her because he's not taking a hit on his insurance rates, paying for the damage, and she can kiss the $4k and new car goodbye. Rather than helping to calm her down and reassure her, he purposely leaves her on the brink of an emotional collapse because he believes she deserves to feel the anguish.
    Not knowing if the wreck will comeback to her and create a chain reaction that will devastate her life she is left at a breaking point. She goes back to her room and overcome with emotions she packs all of her things because her life is over. She realizes she needs to clear her mind and refocus so she tries to get a cabin somewhere close that she has been before, emails her professors, possibly invites a friend, and takes off towards an area that has been a place of serenity to her in the past. And why not?.....if the wreck ruins her deal with the prosecutor then she if f#cked anyway, might as well have a nice relaxing week in the mountains. Withdrawals most of her money to help have a good week, buys some booze and heads towards the fateful spot.
    She has a prearranged meeting spot, but wrecks before reaching it. In the emotional fog she decides to run on foot to avoid a DUI arrest. With some of the booze in her bag she runs to the designated meeting area.
    At this point she realizes that she really is f#cked because a DUI arrest will cause her deal to be broken giving her a grand total of one DUI, a fraud/ identity theft conviction, permanently booted from the nursing program, not to mention the hate coming from dad because his new car has $10k of damage she can't pay for, and now she doesn't even have a s#!t box car to get to a job she will need after serving some time in jail.

    In her mind, the writing is on the wall. There is only ruination by going back. Perhaps she doesn't even go to the meet up spot and just hitches rides until people start speaking French, or she does meet up and spills her guts in a booze-fueled epic train-wreck meltdown. Her friend vows to keep the secret and helps her as far as possible.

    I say friend because if it was a boyfriend she would have only needed a one bedroom cabin or a studio and she looked for a two bedroom.

    Thoughts?

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    1. I like it. It nullifies Fred's lackadaisical quote on dealing with the $10k blunder. Put your story in front of mine, we have a graphic novel! (poor taste, I'm just trying to lighten it up:) Check my scenario, and see if you agree. Thanks, Jeff Hola Jim!

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    2. Jeffrey - I agree with your scenario as well. There is so much wiggle room. My own doesn't cover the Tandem Driver pick-up vs. running to a designated spot, and either could be the case, but I am feeling like the first part up to the point of the wreck is jiving and tracks with yours.
      FM is an odd bird plus harsh to his kids and likely the whole family has alcohol issues, so I'm not surprised his phraseology is questionable.

      Didn't he toast to his daughter whilst boozing with volunteer searchers like she was an Irish drinking limerick?. Something to the effect of being naked on top of a mountain? F'd up, or should I say FM'd up... haha.

      I guess I'm settling on the Londonderry Ping showing that her Tandem Driver was checking in say hey and "Where are we meeting up again?" and then they met prior to driving down the county road she crashed on. Perhaps they were a few minutes behind or who knows. How long had MM been at the crash site before BA showed up? Perhaps BA turned his bus between MM and Tandem Driver at an intersection, so as soon as BA left MM jumped right in the car and off into the unknown.

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    3. rcoopr there are some flaws with your theory. One there is no proof Maura had all the alcohol she purchased on her at the time she wrecked her car. The only alcohol that is known for a fact that she had on her is the box of wine. Two there is no proof that Maura was driving tandem with someone. All indications are that she was driving on her own. Three since Maura was unable to rent the condo the condo having two bedrooms is moot point. There is also no proof that Maura knew that it was a two bedroom condo when she called to inquire about, as that could have been the only condo listed as available it would make sense that Maura would try to rent it.

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    4. Responder343 - HOW DARE YOU! kidding.

      From your points. 1: she purchased a good amount of booze and it was not in the car. Unless she met up with the tandem driver and he/she took it with them, then MM took the booze with her when she ran. 2: If there was proof we would likely know her whereabouts by now, so no proof on much of anything, but clues possibly. The 2 bdrm cabin, Londonderry ping, considerable amount of alcohol bought, quick disappearance from the scene with no discernible tracks or scent(if she was running then those tracker dogs would have found something), all of these things give credence to Tandem Traveler. 3: Disagree with you outright on this one. I have traveled quite a bit over the years and you always find a rental that fits your budget and needs. A strapped college student going on a solo trip to the mountains would be looking for a cheapest possible one bdrm or studio for the week. Rental areas like that would have options for a single traveler and as a young college student she was capable of finding a single room for one or a 2 bdrm for two. You ask for a specific rental for a specific reason. I don't think shes daft enough to think this is the only cabin out there. Something appealed to her and it was likely the number of bedrooms and familiarity. who had been to that cabin before besides her? That might be a great suspect for the Tandem Driver.

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  10. I'm pretty sure that the first wreck, if it was considered just a basic car accident and not a DUI crash, would not affect her criminal status whatsoever.

    But that's a pretty reasonable rundown regardless, and of course I could be wrong about the implications of the accident.

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  11. Ive read about Israel Keyes and his modus operandi seems to fit. His victims vanished with no evidence or trace. He dumped them in other states.
    Either that or she was going to get away for a few days to get blitzed out of her mind and run from her problems. She tried to get away from the wreck by hitching a ride and that person took advantage of her and dumped her. They will never find her body.
    If she were alive, Renner would have found her.

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  12. I doubt Israel Keyes was involved in this, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

    At a minimum it's worth noting that he has been specifically ruled out in Brianna Maitland's case, but not in Maura's.

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  13. Fred paints everything as being fine and dandy as he feels guilty that she was running from him. They found the remains of a guy up in the woods recently that was there from the 80's. Hopefully, someone stumbles upin her someday too.

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  14. From NY Daily News of 2/8/2014:
    He uses "grabbed" here too

    There's no letting go," said Murray, a medical technician in Bridgeport, Conn. "My daughter wouldn't want me to quit on her. She'd want me to keep trying to find out who grabbed her."

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    1. Again, that would be an EXPECTED place to use the word "grabbed". I know people think we are nitpicking, but that it what statement analysis is all about. You pick the tiniest little nits from people's statements. We look for things that are expected vs. things that are unexpected. A rapist/kidnapper/murderer "grabs" a woman, a cop does not. A cop "helps", "saves", "assists". Heck even in the negative a cop might "subdue" or "arrest".

      I do not think Fred had anything to do with Maura's disappearance. What I do think is that he was controlling when it came to his daughter and so aggressive language enters his statements when he talks about her (even when she is being "saved"). I think it is an indication, that at least from Maura's point of view, her father was a source of stress for her.

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  15. Greetings all.

    It's my first time posting on here, but I've been lurking for quite some time. I've recently written an email to Mr Renner commending him on his efforts and I've spent almost the entire weekend (fml) reading about the case, mainly on this site and watching a couple of vids. This all is TL;DR, but please help me get the big picture here. (I'm not at the same level of knowledge as you guys)

    Having gone over the timeline sheet and crosschecking that with the "Maura is Missing Part I" I've tried to piece together her movements on the day she vanished. Am I right in concluding that nobody really knows if she took the I-91 this day? If so, using Google Maps one can deduce that if she left Amherst shortly after 4:00 p.m. she should arrive in Woodsville, NH around 6:30 p.m. This means that there is a full hour not accounted for [if she indeed took the I-91 route]. Her wrecking of the car is reported around the 7:30 mark that evening.

    If she decided to stay off the interstate she could have taken the Route 10/I 93 all the way up to Concord and from there to the White Mountain National Forest and turn east to hit Woodsville. This is a trip that will take 3,5 hours and as such fits the timeline rather perfectly. This is however a major detour if her final destination was Burlington or Stowe, VT.

    Or; traffic was bad as she pulled out of Amherst (it is during rush hour) and/or she drove very carefully and spent an hour or so longer than normal. Remember that estimates from Google Maps takes normal driving into account.

    There is also the coke bottle found inside the car, either containing wine or booze. Most men on my fathers side are alcoholics and, well, this is the oldest trick in the book to conceal that you are drinking. So for the sake of argument, lets say for whatever reason she was drinking while driving. Adding this to the whole "I don't want to be pulled over by police/spotted" thing, IMO it's plausible that she took the back roads so to say until she wrecked her car in the vicinity of Woodsville.

    I obviously don't know what the directions the police found in her car said. Does anybody know this by the way?

    Obviously this is not new info for you guys, this has probably been discussed at length earlier. I'm just curious as to why it is considered a fact that she took the I 91. Also, if her plan the whole time was to go to Canada to start over, why not just keep heading north? She was only a couple of hours away from the border if she was on the I 93.

    Thanks for reading and I hope you can help clear up any misconception I might have.

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    1. It has been said that Mauras car had almost a full tank of gas which would indicate that she stopped some where near for gas and could be the missing time.

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    2. Thank you jwb, I was not aware of that. It could at least account for some of the missing time, and you factor in every day variance this would certainly add up the time.

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  16. I'm still waiting on an answer for what exactly the author is suggesting that Fred had to do with the disappearance, or knows about it that he isn't telling.

    Even if the guy is trying to save face for whatever reason, I highly doubt that he had anything to do with her disappearance. The simplest explanation is usually the most likely one. I think what happened was that Maura had a lot on her mind because of her credit card fraud, the recent accident, and other personal things in her life, and wanted to get away. She bought a lot of alcohol, and headed north. Based on the coke bottle that was found in her car which smelled like alcohol, she was obviously drinking during her drive up there. For whatever reason (I don't know, and you don't know) she lost control of her vehicle and crashed. Being in on a dark unfamiliar stretch of road, and also having been drinking while driving, she likely panicked and took off running to avoid a DUI. Here she may have gotten picked up by someone and met with foul play, but in my opinion, it is more likely that she is out there in the woods somewhere, and her remains just haven't been found yet. It doesn't matter how extensively the area has been searched yet, it is a huge area of wilderness out there.

    A body can be easily missed. In my home town, there was a 21 year old male college student who was out at a popular bar drinking with friends. He left the bar without his jacket and texted a friend saying he would be right back. He never returned. He was found over two months later floating in the reservoir next to the bar, even though the reservoir has been thoroughly searched by divers shortly after his disappearance. If divers can miss a body in a small reservoir, then Maura's body can easily be missed in the New Hampshire wilderness. In my opinion, her remains are out there somewhere, and just sadly haven't been found yet. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

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  17. Occam's razor does not always work when factoring in human behavior @syzygy. But I do see what you are saying :) One piece that I have had a hard time fitting in is the rag in the tail pipe. One possible scenario that might work is this: Maura knew her car was crap and could break down at any second. So she came up with a plan with her tandem driver (I am confident she had one) that if something went wrong with her car but she was alright, she would stick the rag in the tail pipe so that he/she knew she was okay and continuing on foot. That way the other person involved would not have to stop and inspect the scene and raise any flags to other people, or lose any time in reaching their destination. The rag is a seemingly innocuous signal at the time and only seems suspicious when you take into account that Maura was never found. I doubt it meant a whole lot (other than being slightly strange) to the officers at the time of the accident who had no idea that this was a missing person's case. She had to have known or at least suspected that there was no cell phone coverage up there and so she would need a more boy scout like way to communicate with the other person that she was okay. Now this doesn’t answer what happened to Maura after the accident but it does sufficiently explain why she would have a rag sticking out of her tail pipe. Most people know that there are certain things in life you don’t recover from, one being running away and starting a new life. I believe the evidence strongly suggests that Maura was running away to start a new life. When people do that, nothing is left to chance. I think everyone knows that if you fail and are discovered, you don't just say "oops, sorry everyone!" It's do or die if you decide to run away. So I believe that she had a plan for everything, including her internet searches. She searched two different places in two different directions. I think she knew that her disappearance would eventually be investigated and when that happened she wanted people to look in way to many directions to narrow anything down. Also, I think Fred gave her the $4000. I don’t think it was to help her run away. I think it was perhaps for a different reason, a more nefarious one, like keeping her quiet. And I think she counted on that money to start her new life. I believe she had a plan, and the lack of conclusion to this means she was successful and had a good plan. This would explain Fred's deceit (sorry to the non believers, but it really is like reading a book when you know what to look for) and it also explains his undercurrent of agitation and anger when he speaks (again, it's there if you know what to look for)...not only was he taken advantage of by Maura, but he has a lot on the line should she ever decides to reappear and speak up. I don’t think she would do that, but if I had a dirty secret that a missing person knew I would have a hard time calming down at any point. I hope I am right because the converse is she is deceased and that's a hard fate to accept for anyone!

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    1. Problem here... I believe the rag was not sticking out of the tailpipe, but was jammed way into it. I don't know if it could be seen, but it was not set up like a flag to signal anyone. This was stated in another post on this site. Forgive me if I have confused my facts.

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    2. I will go back and check. I thought it was the other way around. But that would certainly make a difference in my theory! I will let you know what I find :)

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    3. It's too coincidental that Fred says he told Maura to put he rag in the tailpipe. Then another person, a stranger, comes along, and does the very same thing? That doesn't make sense. Only Fred and Maura had that conversation, so logically it was one of them who put the rag in the tailpipe. I'm betting that it was Maura, who used that as a signal to Fred that yes, she'd been there and gone-out of his life.

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  19. Don't know if this has been theorized before, however, could she have put the rag in the pipe to try to commit suicide? After crashing the car for the 2nd time in a short period it could have put her over the edge? Doesn't the carbon monoxide back up in to the car if the pipe is blocked? Maybe the car stalled or BA came upon her so she abandoned the attempt and fled?

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    1. The car would stall well before a lethal amount of carbon monoxide would have been able to seep into the car for her to have then breathed in.

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    2. maybe not? Blocked tail pipe can kill.
      http://carbonmonoxide-poisoning.com/blog/tag/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-and-stuffed-tailpipe

      http://pix11.com/2013/02/11/boston-boy-dies-in-car-of-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-as-snow-blocks-tail-pipe/
      I'm really thinking this is what she did to try to commit suicide.

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    3. In order for a lethal amount of carbon monoxide to enter the vehicle, the exhaust system has to be in bad condition, with holes and leaks. This is very rare. Does it happen sometimes? Of course, but I highly doubt that she would suddenly just up and decide to kill herself, especially by stuffing a rag in the tailpipe, none the less.

      If an exhaust system has leaks, it can get clogged up and not stall the engine. However, if the exhaust system was in good working condition, and the tailpipe got clogged, either the engine would stall out very fast, because there are no holes for the gases to escape from, or whatever object was in there would be blown out, usually with a huge bang. This is why although sometimes seen in movies, stuffing a potato or banana in a tail pipe usually won't do much in real life.

      I honestly think the rag in the tailpipe was probably just a misguided attempt at having the car smoke less, and is not related to the accident and disappearance in any way.

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    4. You're explanation is probably correct, just exploring all thoughts. Another thought might be that someone put the rag in when she stopped to buy liquor then followed her waiting for the car to stall. However that doesn't really sound to practical. There are much more effective methods to adbuct someone than waiting for a car to stall on the road.

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    5. If someone put the rag in when she stopped for liquor, why did Fred claim that the HE gave Maura the rag to put in her tailpipe?

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  20. I think Fred says that Maura could have been "grabbed" by the police because he would not have minded if she were arrested since she was probably drunk driving. At least she would be alive now. I think the word "grabbed" expresses his anger that she was drunk driving, and this led to the accident occurring in the first place. I have a feeling that Fred's story is sketchy because he did not want to admit that he came to visit Maura and was drunk all weekend. When I went to college many parents would visit on the weekends and become drunk and unruly, more than their children! Maura had her dad's car because he had gotten so drunk she didn't want him to drive her on campus, so she dropped him off. Perhaps she went back to the hotel later to check on him? We don't know what happened next, but if she slept in the hotel lobby it was because she couldn't wake him up from being drunk. If she slept in the hotel room, he probably didn't know she was right next to him because he was passed out drunk. It's an embarrassing thing to admit to, and then everyone would think that Maura ran away to get away from her drunk dad.

    I keep thinking about the many ATM withdrawals that Fred made to "purchase the car." I am convinced that he was not going to purchase a car that weekend. Why not use a check or debit card for the down payment? Or if he really wanted to use cash to try to get a bargain, why not just go to the bank to take it all out at once? It seems like a waste of time to me. I think he was going to use it to pay off someone for whatever reason that is still unknown. Was he going to pay Maura's lawyer? Pay off a debt to someone? This goes back to why not just use a debit card or check...

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  21. I had an interesting experience a few months ago. Everything is fine. I don't know if there was anything that could have changed the end of this story, but it made me think about Maura.

    My teenager drives herself and intends to accomplish great things. My other teenager is happy to just BE. We don't push them... Their grades must stay high and their substance use must be nonexistent, but they are still very young.

    One night my oldest was exhausted from...wait for it.... TRACK practice. She asked if she could go talk to her BFF. I have 30 years in law enforcement and so does her father. Therefore, I automatically absorb a scene into my short term brain, without even thinking about it.

    Let me set the scene for you. A dark house. A man standing with his back to me wearing a black windbreaker. Daughter exits the car. I planned to drive around for 15 minutes as Ella (friend) said that was all the time she could spend at the house. Something made me park in the driveway.

    Daughter (Anna) disappears into the house. 10 minutes later a 17ish male comes to my car window & asks what are you doing here? Hostile. I check my licensed weapon and place it back in storage place.

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  22. By the way it is 11:00 PM. Ella originally says that Anna may visit for 15 minutes for a bestie (hugggg) visit, but may not spend the night.

    10 minutes later Ella approaches the car. She seems upset. Stares at me but says nothing. The 17 year old materializes from the front of the large yard and they have a brief conversation. I hear, "I TOLD you she was coming over."

    My spidery sense is SPARKING. I text Anna. GET back to the car. NOW.

    5 minutes later Anna appears. She says nothing we drive home. Life goes back to normal.

    ???????????????

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    1. Just a quick example of how you just never know when something bizarre is going to happen.

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    2. Even the daughter of a double L.E. household, and it sounds like she let her guard down. Great 6th sense CarolinaMom! I have it my self, it's a combo of law school lies (case stories) life, parenthood, and observation.
      I will always be keeping an intern around just to keep up on all the latest youth -codes, trash talk, and drug slangs. It's an edge that compiles endless resources. Great Parent's, kudos! JS

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  23. Just a quick comment, but I also thought the rag was shoved deep into the tailpipe. For some reason I can't find out where that detail is here under a mountain of information. If It was shoved into the tailpipe as opposed to hanging from it, could Maura have shoved the rag in there quickly to possibly have LE think the cause of the wreck would be the carbon monoxide and not the liquor??? I don't know, just a thought....

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  24. I would like to know where this "Fred said to put the rag in the tailpipe" of the Car, particularly a, forgive me, but a dog like a Saturn in weak condition, wouldn't run with a rag in the pipe. If exhaust get's by do to the rag being small, OK. For me, the aggravating aspect of this, is all info is literally hearsay. The controlling investigative unit has all real evidence locked up so when the subject(s) finally blows it, they'll have unknown ep-e's or other surprises waiting for evidence clarification.(Good enough for the DA) If the safety kit where the rag came from was moved or not, that isn't public knowledge, and, It's doubtful that the car was treated properly because it wasn't treated like a Homicide or a missing person at first. Sorta like how the Seattle police dropped the ball on Cobain. They let his loving wife remove everything a day later(that she chose!). In this case,they let a pretty girl get out of 2 different vehicular mishaps, and then she pulled a Claude Rains! (reused metaphor!) No doubt there is a giant law suit in the near future. (apologies to all, really) It just seems that's how these sad things go. And for the sick bastard(s) who took Maura, I hope your dumb enough to be reading this. A café, public Wi-Fi, pretty soon they'll know even more about locating all individual users. Sorry for going off, but it's time. Too many people are hurt over this, and I'm sure the families are jaded by now. A positive aspect of this, myself and I'm sure others have gotten into Law & Enforcement. I was in the midst of becoming a PI and this case has shown a lot of paths to say the least. As always, my regards to all parties affected by Maura's vanishing, and may she be found, hey JR, and may the real truth please show it self. JS

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  25. Oh for Christ sake. In New England that is how they talk. Step off and get over it.

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  26. This is a fascinating case; and, while some speculation is a given due to the nature of the disappearance and the puzzling questions surrounding it, some of this speculation is so left-field that it not only bogs valid points and leads down under a mass of absurdity, it turns a missing woman into an urban legend. Nit-picking word usage is about as absurd as it gets. I have the utmost respect for James and the countless hours he's put into this case, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. What I read into her father's word choice is a desperate father who has spent a decade wondering what happened to his daughter and desperately wishing just one thing had gone differently in the hopes that she wouldn't have vanished. I see desperation, nothing else.

    I've always thought Maura either fled the wreck and ultimately wandered into the woods and died or else fled and got picked up by her killer. The "tandem driver" scenario just doesn't hold water. The fact that her remains haven't been found doesn't mean they aren't out there TO be found. As for the second option, there are unfortunately plenty of evil men in the world who only need an opportunity to act. A pretty, young woman stranded on a dark, virtually deserted, New Hampshire highway sounds like a great opportunity. There's a mystery here for sure, but I don't think there's a conspiracy.

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    1. I think she's bipolar. Her erratic actions and emotional instability plus she was alone.

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  27. On the site notwithoutperil.com, Sam Ledyard stated that the rag was placed far into/up the tailpipe. You can view his reference on one of his responses regarding his visit to the N.H. Crash site. Pics of the crash site are also posted. On June 19th, 2014 @ 0850, he stated something that I honestly didn't know up until now. The cell phone ping at 1637 was not a ping from Maura's phone indicating her general location. It was a ping indicating the location of the incoming caller. I believe that caller has not been identified. If this was already public knowledge on this blog, I apologize. Regarding the rag, I'm assuming that Maura performed this action to prevent from her car being hot wired/started/stolen, etc. if she didn't plan on coming back to her car, why even bother (rhetorical)? I had believed it was certainly a possibility that Maura ran off to start again; but, the rag in the tail pipe makes me think that might not have been the case.

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  28. Grabbed her , here with me ...... you people don't get the mind of a severely distraught dad . These are all things I would say if either of my teens went missing and were never saw again + the police investigation was botched .
    Hell for all we know an officer could have grabbed and killed her . It has happened many times before . There have been several cops who turned out to be rapists, killers and serial killers .

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  29. Big deal. Fred used the word grabbed, a verb which means to seize something quickly. If my kid were missing, I would want the cops to grab her too if they saw her. I guess the police don't care that Fred used the word grabbed. If my kids were missing, I wouldn't be worrying about what verb or word I used. This is a bunch of nonsense.

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  30. that is really reaching.. I am not a Fred fan at all...however... "grabbed" is often used for so many things... " I have to grab the kids then I will get on the road"... How many of us on a daily basis use slang.. or a term that fits us.. or our vanacular? Also.. they guys is being interviewed... how many of us actually plan out words on advance... I think we are reading way to far into " grabbbed"..

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  31. Using the word "grabbed" indicates that he knew or surmised that she'd been drinking and driving. I don't read anything more into it than that.

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  32. Colloquialism and education account for much of how people speak, unless trained as a newscaster etc. I read nothing sinister or deep in that word.

    I am interested to learn from those posting here who are hinting MMs Dad is either behind her disappearance or that MM was running from him ...your why's?? I keep reading vague accusations but no reason. She's afraid for her life? She's under his spell and can't break free? People - adults - don't run and start a secret life never to surface unless there is some major major issue. What is that for MM? She's a girl who got into WP. She's not a soft wallflower. An accident in which she was not charged with DUI and minor theft doesn't read like reasons for a young woman a year away from her degree in a highly employable field to chuck away her identity. And who is this proposed mystery tandem driver? New bf? Why run away. Won't he be missing too? They would be consenting adults in a free country. Why run and hide?

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