Friday, January 9, 2015

Source Close to Investigation: I Believe There Was a Tandem Driver

Yesterday I spoke with a source close to the investigation. Someone who has been involved from the very beginning. They, too, believe Maura was traveling with another driver and it was this person who picked her up at the scene of the accident.

"It's good to talk to you, finally," they said. "I've thought this for years. It's the only thing that makes sense. It's good to know I'm not crazy."


79 comments:

  1. could this be the red truck seen by the lady walking to the store?

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    1. it sure seems as though they were looking for somebody according to that witness. and cops were stopping red trucks all into the next morning and they did not even talk to that witness at that point. interesting for sure.

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    2. I have always trusted that woman. In fact, there was a post by Renner once dismissing the significance of the red truck based on a statement from the guy in Saco, ME. I and others talked him out of it. I think W is very reliable. I wonder about that truck and how it fits.

      ~ John Green

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    3. They stopped 6 trucks I believe up to around 8am the following morning. 3 were red, one was maroon and the others were something other than red or a shade of red. I personally would not call that a "search". Per the logs there were legitimate reason for the stops. It was probably just coincidence. The logs on any given day may look much the same, red trucks are common.

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    4. LE started stopping red trucks the night Maura crashed in NH and into the next AM? I was under the impression that the responding officer to the crash scene, and Butch Adams, searched briefly after arriving to a vehicle with no driver in sight post (Mr. Adams initial encounter) but didn't consider her a legit missing persons case until a little while after. Can you please clarify?

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    5. That is just my point Hertz. In the 12 hours after Maura's crash several vehicles were stopped for legitimate reasons per the Grafton County logs. Of those vehicles, a few were trucks, and of the trucks, a few were red. Some have postulated that they were stopping red trucks. I don't see that way.

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  2. Curious as to why the previous day's post (1-8-2015) about the track coach was taken down? Are you able to elaborate?
    Well her friends Kate and Sara must know something about this. How could Fred not know? He is convince a local Dirt Bag picked her up. With all her deceptiveness of events that have occurred,it make this the only reasonable conclusion.

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  3. Just thinking out loud base don Aries' comments above.
    All this time I figured Fred meant "local dirt bag" as some random person who kidnapped/captured/killed Maura. But maybe Maura knew someone locally, and Fred knew this, and Fred is referring to that person (without revealing too much), and Fred thinks that person is involved in her (willing) disappearance. I am already thinking about the holes in this... Fred would have mentioned this to police... but maybe Fred didn't know the person's name... and maybe the police cannot reveal this...
    Just thinking down a path I had not gone down before.
    (Formerly 'the Canadian')

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    1. Thanks for sharing this. I think it is an insightful line of reasoning. In my view, it allows for some seemingly disparate facts to be fit together into a sensible scenario.

      ~ John Green

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  4. What happened to the track coach entry on Jan,8?

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    1. It was deleted. I discuss it in a little bit more detail below.

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  5. umm couldnt the track coach have lost his job for sleeping with a student in 2004 ? Wasnt it valentines day week she disappeared? things that make you go ummmmmm

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    1. Hi JJHoly.

      I spoke with Maura's coach for about 30 minutes once. My former coach (I leo was a track and field athlete at a NE college) introduced to me to her at a track meet I had come to watch. When I mentioned the statement Hoss made to Renner, she was visibly taken aback. She expressed doubt that it was actually going on, given that there were very tight rules and that the track program administrative lead (which she now is) kept an ear to the ground for that kind of thing, as it can have huge legal, donorship and reputation impacts for the university. Moreover, I spoke with another member of the team - who contacted me, and who I subsequently met and whose identity I verified - who said that she had not heard of it and felt that such a thing would have spread like wildfire. On the other hand, Renner interviewed a team captain - Therrien I believe - who stated that other team members knew and in fact were trying to hook them up with each other. That team member said that her teammates did not like Billy, but I have heard from at least 2 other teammates that they did like him.

      The one factor that causes me to elevate my contact's POV on this, compared to the statement Renner got from Therrien, is that my contact ran with the middle distance/distance runners, and thus associated closely with Maura, while Therrien, I believe, was a sprinter. I have been on collegiate track teams. You tend to circle up with your event group socially, although not at all exclusively, particularly within the middle distance and distance ranks because (a) they are together more on longer runs away from the school, and (b) they are together year round, with most of them running XC.

      ~ John Green

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    2. " i dont want to get my friend in trouble" could that of been Kate reffering to Hossein her track coach for sleeping with her other friend Maura?

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    3. Hi JJHoly.

      I appreciate the thoughtfulness you invest into this blog. It really helps to keep things interesting and moving.

      Interesting take on Kate. I would think (without having all the circumstances in play) that this eventually would have paled in importance to her (probably quickly-eventually) unless they knew where she was. But even then, the scenario you envisage suggests to me her running away with Hoss, which she clearly did not do. But, like I said, there are a lot of missing facts here, so your insight may well be one worth further exploration.

      ~ John Green

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    4. Why in the world would someone lie about such a thing if the consequences could put him in hot water not only with the school but puts him in the crosshairs of a missing persons case.

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    6. jjholy,
      Your comment above about not getting Maura in trouble...if it indeed was pertaining to Maura's relationship with the track coach...(in my mind) would mean that the trip had something to directly do with this coach. Otherwise, it's something completely different and their relationship was a red herring. Was the coach born in the US? Here on a Visa? Anyone know what country he has relocated to and what year he did so? That could certainly be suspicious, in my opinion.

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    7. Another thought, I can see the relationship getting the track coach "in trouble", but it shouldn't have gotten Maura "in trouble" with the college. A talking to, yes, but not "in trouble". The only person it would've gotten Maura "in trouble" with is Billy. So, I would think that her friends would've disclosed this to the police and others if her coach had something to do with her trip/disappearance. I don't think they would've protected him. This is currently my opinion and subject to change!

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  6. What happened to the previous post?

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  7. Can't shake the feeling that the posts lately have some sort of ulterior motive. What, I have no idea.

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    1. Yuri Ville, Funny, I was thinking the same thing yesterday. It's odd that this blog was dead since October? And now we are getting entries practically every other day? And I still don't get why 2 entries were removed, one was about a map I think and the other one was about the track coach. Odd.

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  8. Can anyone say generally what the gist of the track coach post was? I missed it.

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    1. it reitterated a previous original post link here:

      http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/09/real-maura-murray.html?m=1

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    2. Thanks. So I take it there was no new info, just something like asking again if the track coach could have been involved.

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    3. Jack-- There was only one substantive difference between the post that was removed yesterday and the post in the link posted by jjholy.

      Specifically, yesterday's post stated that Hossein Baghdadi had never informed police about the conversation he had with Maura wherein she informed him she had thought about running away. The 9/9/11 post indicates Baghdadi told Renner that he (Baghdadi) had discussed the conversation with the police.

      The only way the two posts could be read harmoniously is if one assumes that Baghdadi was not truthful with Renner concerning the extent of his contact with police.

      The new post also mentioned that Baghdadi is now in another country, but it did not say exactly when he moved there. In an absolute sense, it is also unknown whether Baghdadi was living in the U.S. at the time of the 9/9/11 post. Judging by the contents of that post, it sounds like he talked to Renner in-person, but that is just a guess on my part.

      So long as Baghdadi's move occurred within the past several years, I think it is tenuous to connect it with Maura. Maura has been missing for well over a decade now. If Baghdadi had something to hide and was going to run because of it, he would've done so a lot sooner after Maura's disappearance. Further, the 9/9/11 post indicates that Baghdadi was willing to be quite open with Renner--to the point that he disclosed having a sexual relationship with Maura. Why disclose something like that (and simultaneously open yourself up to a good many questions) if you have something to hide? Lots of the other people who were close to Maura have been tight-lipped over the years, and, besides the online chatter, they seem to have pretty much escaped intense scrutiny.

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    4. Thanks for elaborating, Joe M and for your analysis on the topic. I agree it's unlikely Hoss fled the country at this late date on account of anything Maura-related. That said, I find him to be a rather smarmy character, but maybe that's just the whole sleeping with students thing.

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    5. Jack-- No problem.

      In fairness to other possible viewpoitns, one could also argue that Baghdadi would've only made himself look more suspicious by not talking. In other words, if Baghdadi had reason to know Renner knew about the relationship between he and Maura, and further might make the relationship public in the context of a post about how Baghdadi would not discuss it, then he (Baghdadi) might well come across looking worse than he would by just coming clean (which is exactly what he did).

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    6. *viewpoints

      Another thing to keep in mind is, as stated above, the 9/9/11 post stated that Baghdadi had already talked to "detectives" and "shared what he knew with them." In the context of the post, it appears that "detectives" means the police and "shared what he knew" means he disclosed the relationship.

      If the foregoing is true, then, at the time Renner talked to Baghdadi, the authorities were already aware of his connection with Maura. Accordingly, Baghdadi could've refused to talk to Renner knowing that so-doing would probably not cause too much (if any) alarm with the police given that they had already talked to him (Baghdadi) and were aware of his prior relationship with Maura.

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    7. Good points. I agree it's unlikely he would have said what he did if her were involved in her disappearance. He'd have to be almost a psychopath to inject himself into the case and say inflammatory things about Maura if he were involved.

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  9. I'm confused - is the last quote from the person "close to the investigation"? Why would they tell a random person/journalist that they feel better that they agree with them? If that is what the investigation shows, that should be enough.

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  10. James,

    Building on some of the comments above ... this does come across as a weird post. That statement just does not sound like something LE would say, which is the suggestion (intentionally or not) by identifying this person as a "source close to the investigation." If it is not an LE source, then it seems almost as if you are quoting a member of the Murray family or one of Maura's friends. If it is not that, then you are quoting some person who is close to the investigation in a random, perhaps self-identified way.

    I am certainly not disputing your integrity. At all. You know I respect you a lot. But this one just comes off sounding really weird.

    Perhaps you could update and elaborate? I don't want to give the lurking troll cowards in the bushes an opening to contest you and hang you up.

    ~ John Green

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    1. My blind first thought when I read this was that it was a PI who was/is involved in the case.

      I don't have a particular PI in mind as I do not retain that level of specifics, and I have no outright reason for thinking that, but that's my surface-level drunk best guess.

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    2. After wracking my brain, my best guess on who this source could possibly be (disclaimer: PURE speculation) is... Maura's younger half brother.

      He's not Fred's kid so he might be the most likely Murray to reach out. Also, the words sound (to me) like those of a relatively young person ("good to know I'm not crazy" "good to talk to you , finally") in that the way of communicating is relatively unjaded and open.

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  11. I agree. I'd be surprised if it was someone who is currently a cop. Cops don't usually look to reporters for approval or give them compliments

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  12. Sometimes i google Mauras Name with a last name who i think she could of married.

    I googled Maura Bahgdadi and a 57 year old woman came up on radaris living in Portland Oregon.

    Then i googled Hoss Bahgdadi to see if he had any ties there.

    Interestingly on his Umass Track Bio , it said he used to work for Nike in there chemical enginering polymer lab.

    http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/w-itrack/mtt/baghdadi_hossein00.html

    Strange I thought so , seeing my brother just got remmaried and the city had to correct his wifes date of birth on the marrige certificate.

    Assuming im not genius and this has already been checked out. I did think googling suspected married last names could prove fruitfull.

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    1. I don't know anything about checking out married names, but I will say that I am from Portland, and in a vacuum that is a GREAT for an out-of-town white woman in her 20s/30s to move to and blend in unnoticed.

      The main factors in that are a.) that there are tons of transplants (and as a result nobody thinking twice about out-of-towners), and b.) a robust market for off-the-grid kinda jobs (due to the odd combination of a horrendous economy and an unusual shitload percentage of upper middle class folks looking to pay whoever to make their lives easier in some way).

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    3. Oh yes. It's a perfect spot for someone with the "outdoors" type interests that Maura seemingly had as well.

      If Maura is somewhere in the U.S., I'm confident that it would be somewhere comparable to Portland in many aspects. And there are not THAT many places that fit that description.

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  13. FWIW... Nike headquarters is in Portland (Beaverton) Oregon. Think they do polymer stuff there.

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    2. UMass has a big deal polymer department.

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  14. If I remember correctly I thought Hoss came back to coach again at umass in some capacity.I searched it a long time ago so might be wrong but I am fairly certain.

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  15. Maura Lee Fox of Portland is not Maura Murray. I located her social media accounts. I know it is the correct Maura Fox because she is 57 and associated with several Baghdadi's. There are several photos of her. It's not Maura Murray, unfortunately.

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    2. Good try jjholy but guess she's way too old. Rest of it fits just not age.

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    4. JJHoly.

      I looked at you're link. I had read that article before and read it again. I am having trouble seeing the part that causes you to surmise that "it seems to validate (that) a witness said (he) saw her the next day."

      Could you elaborate?

      Many thanks.

      ~ John Green

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  17. Good Renner finally talked with this source. Could help bigtime. Might also try head cop for Mt Holyoke, Smith, and Hampshire. Doubt he'll say anything, but worth a try.

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  18. Could you elaborate a little more
    why Mt Holyoke and I assume cecil smith but Hampshire what?
    Thanks

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  19. oh how the tides have changed. seems maybe I was right about recent happening and rumblings in the Woodsville area making waves. some people only have a certain limit before spilling the beans.

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  20. has anyone ever talk to officer mark Ruddock the cop who was at the corolla crash. he has some very strange connections and was just slightly older than Maura in 2004. just a thought to look into this.

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    1. Renner did talk to him. It was a strange conversation, as reported by Renner here.

      With all due respect Miss Understood, I think that if you are going to put out statements suggesting that you have additional knowledge of what is going on in the case, you should explain. For instance, above, you suggest that there are "happenings and rumblings" in the Woodsville area that you are aware of matters in Woodsville that could be relevant to the imminent solving of the case. You have made this suggestion several times. For another example, immediately above you say that Officer Ruddock "has some very strange connections." What are you talking back.

      It is just my view, but I feel that if you have something, say it. If you have something but cannot or don't want to say it for some reason, that is fine, but then why would you hint at your superior knowledge?

      Obviously you can post what you want to, and you have posted many statements that interested me. I also appreciated stuff you shared with me via email. I am just giving you my opinion that if you can't state it here, alluding to it is somewhat distracting.

      ~ John Green

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    2. miss piggy you're a hoot and a half. ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!

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    3. John, I agree. It is unfortunate when the comments section gets used as a place to try out the old "I know something that you don't know" game. That game doesn't have a whole lot of appeal to me, and I find those who play it to be childish.

      Either you are willing to share something material to the case, or your are not. If a certain number of people in the public at large know what you are hinting at, it is not a secret anymore. Sharing it is fine. You aren't all that special, and whatever it is can't be all that juicy given that it is, to some degree, public knowledge in a community. If I had 10 cents for all the various tantalizing pieces of evidence which have amounted to a heap of nothing in this case, I think I could retire comfortably.

      Keeping the information to yourself is, of course, fine as well.

      On the other hand, acting like you are somehow more knowledgeable about things than the rest of us by throwing out vague hints is, simply put, annoying. So doing smacks of a somewhat juvenile desire for attention.

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    4. Thank you for saying something. You dudes put it far more tactfully than I would have.

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    5. Miss Piggy, seriously you are funnier than anything I ever saw, so is strange connections code for sour basement grapes?

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    6. One last note on this topic from me. I have enjoyed our email correspondence and many, many of your posts Miss Understood. We emailed back and forth about your frustration when someone claimed that you are simply that mentally ill hack John Wolfman Flower Columbo (not really a detective, he just plays one on Topix) Smith. Despite the timing of your appearance (just as John's two screen names disappeared as he learned - and I don't know how he could have missed this - that LE might be monitoring and that he is going to get a summons from a King County, WA criminal court for that little email prank he played on me), I have not thought you were him. But, however good your intentions, Joe's take does resonate a bit with me. That is, that kind of "I know something and I'm an expert, but not saying what it is" was the most John ever said about the case in the six years or so that I have been exposed to him. I tried to be polite, but in fact he does not know a lot about the case and was asked to leave the "league of investigators" alone after he tried to insinuate that he was one of them. (Either that, or he was once one of them and they quickly asked him to stand aside.) In either case, he has been bitter and destructive and mean ever since, unable to take responsibility for his own mistakes in judgment and trying to spin the entire universe around himself.

      All of that said, he is a sick guy and I have some sympathy for him. But my point here is that when you - someone who has made great observations and raised great questions about the case - starts playing that same game that John was playing, I myself - despite the value I see in the majority of your posts - start to wonder. So, for your own sake - and as a friend of yours - I hope you will either say what you have or not mention those things you can't or won't. Whether you realize it or not, musing as if you have inside knowledge that you can't share is making you look bad. I like you, I want you to continue to post, so please digest my comments in that context.

      I hope I have said this well and in a way that shows the respect I have for you.

      ~ John Green

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    7. believe what you will. when all is over the reality will set in. the entitlement you people feel you deserve is beyond selfish. looks like anyone that tries to post here is totally ridiculed until they leave.

      so on this note.

      adios kiddos.

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  21. "There are at least 6 people in the world who look exactly like you. There's a 9% chance that you'll meet one of them in your lifetime."

    I still wonder if it was Maura murray at the weathered barn corner with the Saturn that evening. there are 2 people who live within 15 miles of the scene who could have passed for Maura that night. these girls are a doppleganger and any witness not knowing woulkd have a very hard time distinguishing between them, especially seeing this was at night on a dark road from approximately 12 to 15 ft. away.

    not convinced yet

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    1. What's the deal with a sighting at the "weathered barn corner"? Are you talking about the stage shop, or something else?

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    2. where the Saturn was found there is the big corner and the barn on the corner is called the weathered barn. across from the westman's house. it is tim westman's music repair shop.

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    3. Oh, gotcha. I'd heard of the barn before but couldn't place it. Thanks.

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    4. Hi Miss Understood.

      You put the first line in quotes. Where does that quote come from? Just curious.

      Incidentally, even given that you have a lifetime of moving around to find one of your six supposed twins, that math is incorrect.

      There is no evidence that I have seen that anyone who lives in the area bears a resemblance to Maura. You seem to be saying that there are two people within 15 miles who strongly resemble here. (By the way, a "doppelgänger" is not someone who strongly resembles you, but instead an ethereal double self). Can you elaborate on this? Who are they? How did you find them? Even given their resemblance, what was their connection to Maura and how did they end up driving her car that night?

      I reiterate my earlier post to you ... if you are going to tantalize with new insights, please explain them and give the evidence for them, rather than just alluding to them.

      ~ John Green

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    5. both girls are locals and No I cannot name them on this blog. they are both into the drug scene and 1 of them had a brother who was a drug dealer. one of them also had a connection to the gallery.

      the pressure here weighs heavy. it is like a bunch of vultures on a roadkill carcass.

      take a breath all.

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  22. Also I don't know where that quote came from but the math on that is absurd haha

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    1. Yeah, someone didn't do the math right on that one. LOL

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    2. the quote was found online. will try and find the link again. sorry I did not research this a bit further.

      my point is that other people look like Maura and 2 people who live close and may have a solid connection to Maura could have passed for her at the Saturn.

      picking me apart is not a way to gain my knowledge. really people. simmer down.

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    3. I also found this same stat in other places. if I am wrong, oh well, damn internet.

      http://wspubs.com/article-permalink-54.html

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    4. So, Maura's disappearance is somehow related to one (or more) local look-alikes who were hanging around the crash scene . . . on the evening of February 9, 2004.

      When does Bigfoot enter the picture, though? Or D.B. Cooper and Elvis driving the car which picked her up and thence continued on to Romania.

      What you're implying is downright fantastical.

      You say "picking me apart is not a way to gain my knowledge." Again, what makes you so special? You also criticize other people for feeling "entitled," but it looks like your are the one with a (profound) sense of entitlement. My guess is you actually don't have much knowledge to share, just old local rumors which have never amounted to anything and an outsize imagination.

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    5. you may take a leap please. your sarcastic manner is so pleasing.

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    6. From the sound of things, it seems like your theory is that some person or persons in the local drug culture got to Maura and then had one of the lookalikes crash the car.

      That might make for a good episode in a TV show, but most criminals are not particularly bright. I sincerely doubt that Northern Grafton County is a hotbed of criminal savants. Further, there are a lot of moving parts to a plan like that. The more moving parts in a criminal enterprise, the more likely it will become exposed.

      And if Maura was after drugs, why in the world would she travel all the way up to Northern NH to get them? I'm pretty sure anything she wanted would have been more readily available in Massachusetts.

      It's also hard for me to believe she was a drug mule. She was a petty thief, and her life certainly had its share of rough edges, but no evidence whatsoever has come forth which connects her with the drug trade. Yes, her sister got busted in Vermont. But that happened years later. I'm not big into guilt by association.

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    7. Could it be that maura was following behind someone? The full tank of gas shows she most likely was going to be driving further. Maybe she wasn't suppose to have an accident or it wasn't suppose to happen there? The accident was merely an accident. Could that be why the red truck slowed down by the witness and then when she got to the store realized it wasn't maura and turned back to find out what had happened. If so she most likely wouldn't of worried about getting most of her things because she was panicking to get out of there and if she wanted to disappear she wouldn't need to take her things because she would get new ones? Was Fred questioned on where the money went? Also my thought on the rag being in the tailpipe is that it could of been the sighn to her dad that they are on to the next part of the plan or that she had been there. He said he's the one that told her to out it there to stop some of the smoke right? We'll maybe that was his reasoning to the police but really it was her sign to him.

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