Thursday, September 10, 2015

Missing Maura Murray Podcast, Episode 9

The new episode is up.

This week, Lance and Tim invited me back on to discuss further details about the case.

We also get into the strange posts by someone claiming to be Vester Lee Flanagan. No one has figured out exactly what happened with that, yet. It's possible the account was Flanagan's and someone hacked it after he murdered two journalists. It's also possible it was an online troll, like Alden Olson, who only pretended to be Flanagan.

As always, this case is just damn strange.

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  4. Kate can remember the Party was standing room only , and a guy walked Maura and her outside, but can't remember who was there and who was the man who walked them out. Ironic she remembers some things but not anything that could be important to Maura's disappearance.
    I believe the Party was off campus and not at Saras dormroom.
    1. Because Billy said Maura told him the Party was off campus
    2. Kate says the Party was standing room only
    3. Most parties aren't held on campus exspecially ones that are standing room only
    Students don't want there parties to be known exspecially if your an athlete.
    Kate's email was odd. Why say "I know you would really like the names of the people at that party, it's just not going to happen, I don't remember and I couldn't help them than, and furthermore I didn't see many of them again".
    Who couldn't she help than? Fred, police, Billy
    She's been No help since day 1.
    Who hasn't she seen again? If you know you haven't seen them again, then you either know there names, or you know descriptions of the people from the Party. To know you haven't seen them again, you must remember something about them . Has she not seen them again because Maura- disappeared, Sara moved away shortly after Maura's disappearance, and Fred she hasn't spoke or saw him in a while, possibly another person because they are or was with Maura.
    Very strange of Fred not wanting
    a book about his missing daughter, in which he said No from the get go. Not only that but not to speak with anyone who won't agree to his terms and questions. You would think he would want everything known about Maura the good/ the bad so it could possibly lead to finding her. How do you tell producers, investigators what question they can ask and what they cant.
    I think whatever happened between Fred and Maura on Sunday in the hotel room wasn't good.
    I think whoever the caller was from the Londonberry ping was who Maura was meeting. If it was someone meeting Maura with her passport, and other items, who was it? Could it be Fred who's phone went silent for hours, Kathleen, Kate or someone else we don't know about?
    Its almost apparent they were heading towards Maura. Them traveling up 93 past londonberry , Maura travelling on 112 which connects to each other. The time of the call puts them close to where Maura was when she wrecked.
    4,000 in about 10 ATM withdrawal . Just very odd. Exspecially in a pre- planned trip.
    Could this of been Fred's income tax money?
    Its hard to imagine a young woman running down a pitch black road by herself at night. I'm a young woman and I would be scared to run down a pitch black road and I was always taught when travelling stay in well lit areas. Also with snow on the ground, I don't live in snow but I'd imagine its not the easiest condition to run in. And within 10 minutes of police arriving to get far enough to not be seen. No where insight.
    I think Maura's family knows she was running away, and possibly from them. Why else would you not be involved, and no longer search. Not only from the beginning but not 11 years later eithe . If they thought someone harmed her you would think they'd want them punished.
    It seems Maura knew Sunday she was leaving. She was doing internet searches until 3 am and then continued on Monday around 1 up until she left.
    James do you think Maura knew someone in the Boston area? On the disappeared show her friend said one time in high school Maura decided to do something different so she hopped a train and went to Boston? She showed back up that afternoon after They had spent all day trying to track her down?
    Also, I believe I read somewhere it was a possibility Maura had been in the Boston area over Christmas break 2003.



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    1. I have the feeling there was no party. If someone goes missing from your college, it's going to be huge news throughout your entire campus. Students are going to think back to instances where they have seen or interacted with Maura or remember if they had attended a party around the time she went missing. The fact that not a single student has come forward in the last 11 years to say they were at this party speaks volumes. It wouldn't have been necessary that they knew Maura but at least recognized her OR Kate OR Sarah from this alleged party but no word came from that either. And that makes no sense.

      This party issue seems like something that could have been proven or disproven in 2004. Investigators or campus police could have put an editorial in the school newspapers asking students if you attended a party at this dorm last week, please contact us immediately. Then they wouldn't have to have leaned on Kate's convenient memory lapse.

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  5. Also kate said when the man walked her and Maura outside she lost sight of Maura. And the man walked her to her car or dormroom . That's odd y'all walked out together but you lose where your friend went at 2 AM. I think the man walked kate to her car not dormroom.

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  6. That man is the secret boyfriend, getaway accomplice, and dude who had knocked her up in my mind. That is why the Kate can't remember anything. She spills the beans and the case is closed. Think about it folks. Dude was driving to see her the day she wrecked and picked her up at the scene. Then they hit the eject button together. Hit the Ferris Buller music, because I just summed it all up neatly!

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    1. It was Valentined Day , a gatewsy weekend in the NH white mountains does sound appealing.

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    2. They didn't have school that Monday bc of snow. Classes were cancelled correct? Vday is not until the 14th!

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    4. I completely shot down this theory previously, but it is now looking more and more likely (in my opinion). Though I don't believe Maura ever escaped to a "new life" (if she was even planning to to begin with), and something went wrong with him.

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  7. In the Disappeared episode, Sharon Rausch says that the phone call that Billy received that seemed like someone sniffing and whimpering came from a prepaid calling card. Would the Red Cross use a prepaid calling card to call a serviceman and help him obtain leave? How do you know this was the Red Cross? Was it in a report somewhere? This has been the one thing that keeps me from buying the "walked away" theory. Thanks!

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    2. This has been thoroughly investigated, and proven it was in fact a Red Cross worker calling about Billy's leave of absence. James has stated this multiple times, and any speculation around it should be thrown to the side...it's a time waster to even factor that into any theories. Phone records have confirmed the call was legit.

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  8. Maybe we need to throw a bigger net on the cast of characters? Was Mauras mother involved with a murderer after Fred? Also wasnt Kates father charged with trying to blow up his neighbours? There is a "scary" cloud around Maura knowing these rarely spoken about elements.

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  9. I have long ascribed to the "tandem driver" theory, but a couple of things give me pause:

    Given that there was no cell phone service where the accident took place, how could Maura have notified her friend/relative or whoever allegedly picked her up, that the accident had occurred? If there was a tandem vehicle, why didn't that vehicle make an appearance at the scene? If I were traveling in tandem and drove into a snow bank, I would expect my friend/relative to immediately stop and check that I was okay. Why didn't the accident witnesses (the Marrottes or the Westons) hear another car pull up, or hear anyone talking after Butch Atwood left the scene, or hear any car doors closing as Maura got into another car? It's so quiet out there, I would think any sound like that would travel.

    Of course, these questions are moot if the accident was pre-arranged at that precise location as a means to conceal existing damage to Maura's car. It would explain a lot.

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    1. She had a samung Flip Phone i think capable of SMS text in 2004. ( not sure). But the signal wss weak for voice but SMS text would most likely hang until it went through.

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    3. What about a Nextal Phone that was like a phone walkie talkie and a fad around that time frame.

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    4. I doubt this is the case, but I do think it's fair to consider, if only because the "cigarette" witnesses thought they saw Maura smoking could have been a red light on a walkie talkie as someone brought it up to speak into it.

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    5. I just did some basic research Sprint and Samsanung did purchase Nexal walkie takie phones and in 2004 it was the Peak of the FAD. Was Mauras Sprint Phone a NEXTAL?

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    6. That's a great question? The sprint Nextal phone was popular back then. The red light could of been someone holding the button down to speak.

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    9. In regards to the Nextel- they were super popular in 2004. But Nextel had the WORST service of any company. No way she would have had service up that way, and you cannot use it as a walkie talking if you do not have service. That service operates on the same wireless network. I remember it would just give you a deep "beep" if you attempted to use the walkie talkie option without service.

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  10. I was reading an old blog about the poker player. One of Maura's family members/ or friend gave a picture from New Years Eve 2002 with maura and friends and a guy named Whalen . The picture was taken at Maura's friend Andrea Connolly relatives house, in Goshen, New Hampshire. Which is about 1 hr and 20 minutes from Haverhill, New Hampshire. ( where Maura wrecked) Why did they think this picture could be important?
    It was made out that she really didn't know anyone in the New Hampshire and didnt know the area but in reality, she did. She had cousins in the Plymouth area , been to a friends relatives house in Goshton, NH and she has hiked and stayed in many areas of the New Hampshire area.
    It seems Maura knew the New Hampshire area pretty good.
    Have you spoke with Maura's friend Andrea Connolly?
    Did Maura have any ex- boyfriends from high school? Any male friends?
    If someone was meeting Maura with some last minute things from home, do you think it could be one of her high school friends?
    Is it known if Maura had a passport?

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  11. Butch said several vehicles passed by after he left. The tandem driver could of been behind Maura, they pass by the scene, stop where they think they can't be seen, Maura gets in the car and they are long gone. If they had TVs on , noise going on in there house, then they most likely wouldn't of heard a car door shut.
    I think with Maura locking her door which wasn't automatic had to lock with key, shows she felt she had enough time to lock the car. Is that because the other driver was waiting down the road. The other driver could of seen the bus driver at the scene and waited until he left to drive by and pick Maura up.
    Most likely it would of only taken minutes for Maura to run and get in another vehicle.
    Why hasn't the person came forward that passed by the scene? Butch saw several vehicles pass by, so shouldn't they of seen the car. In my opinion its because they don't want to be identified.
    Could Butch identify what type of vehicles passed by after him?

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  12. Do you think its possible Maura was looking at more credit card charges? She used the credit card 6 times over a 15 day period. Most people when using a stolen credit card, would use once or twice then get rid of it. Maura didn't. Also when the police asked her if she had a credit card, she said yes, they went back to her dorm and she handed them a receipt, cop said this doesn't match, she said it must be the other receipt I have, she handed them a notecard, with the credit card number, and other numbers that she said were "Friends" phone numbers. Did the police compare the first receipt Maura handed them with her credit card? To make sure it was really hers and not someone else's?
    It'd be interesting to see if those numbers were friends numbers and if so who did they belong to or if they were other credit card numbers.
    If we could see Fred's ATM transactions, it'd give insight into whether Fred pulled the money out or if Maura stole the money from him. If she did, that could explain why she needed to get in her dads room at 3 am.
    Still wonder what Maura was doing between 2 and 3 am on the night she wrecked her dads car. She left the party at 2 but wrecked at 3 am right down the road from UMASS, was she withdrawing money from ATM's ? Or was the party off campus and it took her time to get back to UMASS ?

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    1. I would love to know the answers to these questions. I believe many are known to police, but not public unfortunately for us.

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  14. I would really like to know more about MM's mother. Her background, places she's lived, etc. The fact that she didn't participate in the searches is very very revealing. If she was in some sort of bad relationship with Fred then maybe she already knew what happened and tried to stay out of the spotlight. Actions speak louder than words, silence is a statement. This is a stretch, but when James revealed that she died on MM's birthday that threw me for a loop. I know she was sick, but maybe she was communicating something by dying on her birthday? I know, a stretch, but we don't really know how she died other than being sick.



    I also wanted to ask why everyone thinks MM was so smart? I probably don't know all the facts, but it seems like we are giving her way more credit than we should for a young girl who obviously drank to extremes. Sure, she stole credit cards but that doesn't make her "disappear without a trace"-level smart.

    James, I remember watching you on Last Call! I'm from the Falls now living in Akron. I hope you find the answers that everyone is looking for!

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    2. Thanks for your reply. I have known a lot of people who were "book smart". In most instances, they lack common sense. It's one thing to be academically smart but if you're not street smart or have common sense you can get into a lot of trouble.

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    4. She used a stolen credit card to order food to her own dorm room... I'm not "West Point smart" and I wouldn't do that... Which makes me think the computer searches to VT locations are relevant, rather than decoys to throw off the search for her...

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  15. Since the car was registered to Fred, Why didn't the police think they were looking for Fred and/ or Maura. On the 911 call Faith said she saw a man smoking, Butch said it was a female by herself. With both statements, no one at the car, why didnt they believe they could be looking for both.
    Was Maura on the insurance? If so, then it would of shown her as a driver and it would of shown Fred owned it. So if it came back with both there names, and with one witness seeing a man, one seeing a woman. What made them believe they were just looking for Maura?
    Faith said the family told her it wasn't someone smoking , but the light was from Mauras cell phone or cell phone charger. The family didn't get there until Wednesday. Did faith only say this on her 911 call or did she repeat it to the officers on scene? Did the police know they were looking for Maura on Monday night or Tuesday. What made them rule out anyone else being at the car? Or do they know something we the public don't know?
    Remember she locked the car so did the police get in the car on scene or back at there impound lot?

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  18. "Sociopath" + "super smart" comments on the podcast gave me a Jeff Goldblum moment: "I wonder if Maura played chess. Chess. There was that episode of 48 Hours called 'Capture the Queen' a few years ago. What was that chick's name?" A quick Google search of the title of the episode led me to the Wikipedia page of one Esther Elizabeth Reed. She disappeared after Maura, lived SEVERAL people's lives over the course of a number of years (including attending a Harvard extension program AND Columbia University and she only got caught because she used the identity of a missing girl. She ran off after she was prosecuted for check fraud. It's kind of eerie.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_Reed

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  20. I'm sure Kate M. Gave the police all the names of all of her friends that were at the party that night including the guy who walked her back to her dorm. I'm sure there was an agreement to keep these names quite since the neighbors who last saw Maura were going through a lot of scrutiny. Being questioned, having to take lie detectors, names in the media, etc... I'm sure there was an agreement made with LE to keep their Anonymity
    A secret.

    Yes, the whole "I can't remember" answer from Kate M. Is a horrible lie, but LE is backing this up. You would think they would have kept up the heat on her and continued to call her in for questioning, there's a reason why they dont, it's because they already know what went on that night.

    I just read the interview from the lead deceive from the Jon Benet Ramsey case. It took almost 20 years for many details to come out about this case and they were pretty shocking! I was floored about what the media was Not able to find out. It's on redit if anyone wants to read it.

    Just remember, its illegal for YOU to lie to Law Enforcement. However it is perfectly legal for Law Enforcement to lie to you!

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  21. Hey was this Maura chick involved with any recreational drug use? Pills, dope, horse, blow, etc. Seems like a good question. Also seems like if she where to have been "dabbling" she could have been making payments in that cashless sort of way if you catch my drift. I mean it could be the reason why she was known to be so, shall we say, "friendly" with some of the men folk.

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    1. I definetly think its a possibility. I've heard of a lot of college kids taking Adderal. Especially before a big test or exam.

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  23. I think she was pregnant, and not by Billy, and her travel and "someone in the family dying" was alluding to her going to a different area to get an abortion where she wouldn't be recognized. As much as I wish she was running away and living off someplace else, it seems rather difficult to do in this day in age. As someone mentioned, she'd only have to get a parking ticket or something minor for her name to pop up in the system. What about getting sick? how would she have not used a hospital or doctor in all this time? People have mentioned a different identity, well, how would this girl who wasn't even good at credit card fraud manage that?

    The only situation that I can imagine is even slightly plausible is that she isn't in the US. Canada DOES work with the US in certain instances, but she could go to the doctor there and it wouldn't pop up in our system. But, if that's true, then the FBI would be aware of it, I'm sure. And if the FBI knew she was alive, why wouldn't they close the case like they have done in other scenarios and simply state that the person is alive and fine and doesn't want to be found?

    I do agree with the mention that the police doubt that she just coincidentally happened to run into a serial killer or murderer on this remote road. Could it happen? Sure. But I just doubt it.

    I just have a feeling this might be one of those cases that we never, ever figure out. Look at all the unsolved mysteries on Disappeared that are older than this one and haven't been solved. The woods is a huge, huge area.

    Another rambling thought, why would she run into the woods? Was she waiting for the cops to leave? Wouldn't she stay somewhat close so she could see when they left?

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    1. underground historical weather from February 9th, 2004 (St. Johnsbury, VT — closest location to Woodsville/Bath/North Haverhill, NH):

      http://www.wunderground.com/history/...tename=Vermont

      * waning gibbous moon (almost full), although may have been obscured by cloud cover.
      * temperatures above freezing from 3pm to midnight, no wind chill (scroll way down Wunderground page for hourly conditions).
      * wind calm to 4.6 mph during the evening.
      * temperatures down to low-mid 20s F on the 10th and then dipped lower on the night 11th/12th. I couldn't find anything saying it was snowing 7:30-9:0pm that night.

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    2. You are right about the snow. I looked it up. They said NO fresh snow in two days, however, that still proves nothing unless the cop who reported initially walked up and down the road about half a mile and looked for footprints. The next day with searchers leaves too much room for error as others could have made the prints. They didn't begin to look for her until a day and half-ish later.





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    3. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/25/grace.coldcase.murray/index.html?iref=nextin

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    1. That proves nothing. I believe one of the searchers mentioned that footprints wouldn't be a good inductor being that snow was falling and it was dark. She could have ran a block and then darted into the woods. Her main goal would have been to evade the police as she was already on probation for fraud and a DUI wouldn't help that matter, nor the accident she just had with her dad's car.

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    1. No charges with her dad's car, but what I'm saying is her insurance or even the police would look at the fact that she just had an accident. Also, her dad himself says they had the dogs smell a pair of gloves that he had just bought her, ie they didn't have her scent. There was a mention about fresh snow. Too lazy to dig it up.

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  28. Ok its just I recall the search saying there were NO prints at all, however I agree there is enough margin of errors over time.

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  29. Yeah. And in that, it is strange that it took them 36 hours to even search the area. Or maybe that's just me.

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  30. Like I said a while ago, outdated procedures, which if I were Fred at least trying to change the law, if anything.

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