A new look at one of the North Country's Coldest Cases
There should "Other"
It's been how long and seeing those options, I STILL have no real idea.
There's little solid evidence, beyond the basic facts of Maura Murray's disappearance. The rest of what we seem to know is of uncertain relevance, at best. In this situation, any poll is going to say a lot more about the respondents than it says about the mystery.
I dont think she is alive. I was looking at a map and wondered if the pond past the end of maguire rd had been searched? Maybe she feel thru ice while she was running away from the car accident.
I often wondered that too!
Well, you have certainly been busy! Great posts. Also, this perfectly sums up the MM case:"Click an answer on the poll above to let us know which way you're leaning, today."
How does directions to take a poll perfectly sum up the case? Sorry, but that's weird.
JR, for completeness, I'd add "Hit and Run" and "Hunting Accident", as we've discussed those possibilities as well.
Who would hit another person by accident and let them die? But if that happened, why didn't they find her along the road?Hunting in February? At night? No. Just no. (I have lived my entire life in WI and my family hunts. That scenario is 99.6% unlikely to have happened.)What about she was able to easily run out of the 5 mile search area and succumbed to the elements/head injury in the woods/mountain? Why can't we accept that could've happened rather than aliens or midnight hunters or some ghost person who ran off with her yet has never been reported missing?
You're making a lot of assumptions there. ( Me too, hah. )I also would add "Captive" as well. Forgot that one.
I live in northern New Hampshire, about 30 miles from Woodsville. I agree fully. Night hunting, in February? It just doesn't happen, for a lot of different reasons. It's illegal. Bears are in hibernation. Moose and deer bed down for the winter. A hit and run accident will usually leave evidence at the scene. A hit and run driver, well, hits and runs. He isn't going to incriminate himself further by driving around with the body and having to find a way to dispose of it.I read James Renner's book, and I think he gave us the likely answer, in Chapter 15 of his book. State police found a skeleton on top Mt Kancamagus, that they they first thought was Maura's. It turned out to be that of someone who died twenty years before. If we ever find Maura Murray, it will probably be in a similar, accidental way.
I agree. An ingenious mind can come up with any number of speculative hypotheses. There's only one possibility that doesn't require unsubstantiated, ad hoc assumptions: She disappeared into the woods. The mystery remains though, why? Why had she left Amherst? Why did she decline assistance, etc?
I don't think we will ever know those answers for sure. But she likely declined assistance from BA because 1) she was probably drunk (this, according to BA) and/or 2) she didn't want to get in the vehicle of some strange man, even a highly overweight bus driver. (I think this is also the reasons he wouldn't/didn't jump into any other steanger's car that might either.)
"Who would hit another person by accident and let them die?"Actually, it has happened, many times. These situations are called "hit and runs". Even cops have done it. Seek and ye shall find."Night hunting, in February?"Who said anything about the night? Illegal hunting in NH?!? Say it ain't so!
If you hit and run as you suggest, then there's a body right? Where is it?She disappeared at night. So if it was a hunting accident, presumably it was a night hunting incident. Unless she lived off the land until the next daytime hunting season began, only to lose her life from a hunting accident months later?Either way, why hasn't her body been found if it was either of these scenarios?
Hit and run means you'll probably see blood or tire marks from braking. Illegal hunting means shots fired, and people would probably hear that on a quiet road at night. If Faith W. could hear a thud from a car hitting a snowbank, she would be able to hear a gunshot, even from a distance.
There's another possibility: She went somewhere with people she knew and then later died on accident. If she thought she was pregnant and that alcohol was the solution, she could've easily poisoned herself to death or walked into the woods or the river, etc.Maura's friends would be worried they were liable for her death and either just left hoping she'd never be discovered, or hid her body.
I would not refer to anyone as 'hiding' a body or just walking away from a dead body as a 'friend.' In order to accept those scenarios, we would have to believe whoever was with her was deprived and immoral. If my friend died, I would call authorities. And I have an impossible time believing any decent human would do otherwise.
I also feel there is a possibility she is being held captive. Yes, I know it has been better than 12 yrs, But!
Stalked watched and preyed upon by a serial killer who has a penchant for numbers letter ,clues weird images religious possible Roman fanatic. Loves to taunt knowing he can't be caught. MO includes nurses and the number 27. Possible one the longest going and highest kill count Serial killer iN USA. That is just my belief
Nothing wrong with clinging to that theory. Seems you have elaborated this since winter. Anything new?
Mac parsons yeah I do have something new, I been looking into .But this if not a red herring by mr POmkik him self could be groundbreaking just proving how really
Mr. Ghost,That is quite an analysis.
Do you mean "27" randomly or something more specific as in, "The 27 Club"?
Well some the stuff I have seen is astounding,and I have come to the conclusion this neither a troll or a coincidence
The number 27 in any way or formThat satisfies the perp. The age 27, 27 stab wounds the number 27 used in a cyrptographic puzzle with pictures. The Chinese Zodiac.
I just found out that Urban Dictionary defines "pomkik" as an internet anarchist.
Yep that he/she is. The stuff they have created is mind boggling and truly disturbing, either to distract of gloat. I have checked some avenues with the Lucile whyte and well I'm not to sure yet on pOmkik it can go either way. I'm Thinking more and more it could be more linked to Maura than we think.
Perhaps coincidence, but the length and depth of the possible poll scenarios seem to directly correlate with your own personal ranking of what likely transpired that night. That is a common error which sometimes biases the results.
I don't think this is meant to be a scientific survey. James isn't trying to be the Pew Research Center.
I think she planned to run temporarily for either personal reasons, possible sexual assault (the night she broke down), or illegal activity herself. Maybe the "friend" who was supposed to help her (at the road) wasn't her friend afterall. Once they got to the cabin, she realized the helper had others waiting. Maybe to keep her quiet about that possible assault or even a pregnancy? Im just speculating.. But I do think she intended to hide out only a while and unfortunately it became permanent. Happens more often than people realize.
Unfortunately I think your theory is very likely. That, or the local dirtbag theory. I hope Maura could be alive, but I think she'd have come forward by now.
More likely than not, people in the situation are found dead, rather than alive.I think once Atwood left, another car came offered her a ride which she accepted. I doubt the intent was to kill her, but I suspect the good samaritan to be sexually motivated. Things likely got out of control, Maura fighting back, trying to flee the house etc. I believe she was killed and likely buried on private property in a drastic manner - incinerated, in concrete etc.
Why would she get into a car with a stranger but refuse Atwood's help?
Although I think Maura wandered into the woods and succumbed to the elements, your scenario is my 2nd choice. It's very possible that she ran from the accident after Atwood left the scene, and at some point along Route 112, someone drove by, stopped, asked if she needed a ride and she got in the car.
Although I think Maura wandered into the woods and succumbed to the elements, your scenario is my 2nd most likely answer to her disappearance.
This is my favorite theory as well. To respond to Nicholas Krancher, this question gets asked all the time, but I think the answer is fairly simple. She simply changed her mind. After he drove away she probably started a thought process roughly along the following lines:"Dang, I should have taken the ride from that bus driver. It's getting colder by the minute and I'm freezing! The cops will get here any minute and I'm going to get busted. I got to get out of here! I'm going to hop in the next car that stops for me."Since BA couldn't see her from where he was parked on his driveway, that means she couldn't see him either, so she didn't know he was still around.I don't know why she wouldn't just walk up to one of the neighboring houses, though, but I guess that would have made it easier for the police to find her before she metabolized the alcohol below .08%. Also, she strikes me as an impulsive individual who often didn't think all her decisions through very well, so when the next car came along she just jumped in without thinking about other, possibly better options.
Am I the only person that can't see the poll?
I couldn't see it either
I can't either. But the last one just had you choose one of JR theories.
You can't see it on the mobile site. You have to view from the desktop version.
Reading about "new evidence" in the Maura Murray case reminds me of an old expression that has been applied in many different areas: "There are a lot of interesting and credible reports. Unfortunately, the credible ones aren't very interesting, and the interesting ones aren't very credible."
Much has been made of Fred not cooperating with police then bringing lawyers when he finally did.The Dr Phil Jonbenet docu just aired and had a similar facet. The Ramseys did not initially cooperate with cops, and they brought SEPARATE lawyers with them when they did.Now, I personally feel either her brother pushed her down the stairs out of jealousy or something. (she garnered ALL attention) Or Patsy accidentally killed her and freaked out. (a nanny/housekeeper thinks this as well)I am not saying Fred knows where Maura is or that he did anything to her deliberately. We all have demons but he likely isn't a monster. But avoiding law enforcement is an act of guilt in some way.Also, both Jon Ramsey and Fred have denied accusations emphatically.
You must've watched a different special than I did. The cops decided they were guilty and that was it.BTW, a special last week stated there was DNA found on her that could only have come from the killer and Ramsey and associates have been cleared. AND they know what the killer's ancestry is. It's NOT a Ramsey.
Bring lawyers with you anytime you're being questioned by the police make sense. Hence why in the Miranda rights they advise you of the right to having an attorney with you. Look at the injustice that happened to Brendan Dassey without having an attorney present with him when questioned about murder. The railroaded him and coerced a confession out of him.
I don't know if you can draw any connections to the Ramsey case. Totally different circumstances. I find nothing wrong with getting legal council before talking with the police. In fact that is exactly what you should do to protect your rights. That however doesn't mean that you should not cooperate with the police, just that you should bring an attorney with you. The Ramsey case is quite unique in the fact that it was widely covered in the media and there is a lot of first hand accounts written about it. I think if you follow the facts of that case with some logic, it can only lead you one way. I know people put a lot of weight in DNA testing. However it is only circumstantial evidence. In James Kolar's book he tells a fictional story where he is in an elevator and sneezes on another person. After exiting the elevator, the guy he sneezed on gets mugged and shot to death later in the day by another person. After testing they find Kolar's DNA. Does that mean that Kolar was the killer? If I read that case right, there was a total of six different DNA profiles found on Jonbenet clothes, under her finger nails, on the cord and garrote. (Five men and one woman's DNA profiles). So, one would have to conclude that either there where six people involved that night or some/all of the DNA is unrelated to the crime. Until they find out who all of the DNA belongs to then there is no way you can rule anyone out. Ruling out the Ramsey's based on some microscopic DNA and ignoring the rest of the facts of the case is ludicrous. Even if they where culpable in the crime there is no way that they will get prosecuted in a court of law at this point. Patsy has passed on and enless someone confesses to the crime, the Boulder DA's office isn't likely to spend the amount of tax payers money to bring it to trial.
To add to my last comment, it COULD be in the Ramsey's case that because cops were convinced they were guilty, they felt threatened and lawyered up. But in Fred's case, he definitely has some guilt over something.
Your poll should include a "None of the Above" or "Other"
Are you familiar with the TV show Redrum, I believe on ID? Maybe one could back into this story from the accident going all the way back possibly weeks. Maybe Kate, Fred, and Sara etc knew of Maura needing to get away (possibly because of the West Point connection and away from Billy) and maybe a lot of things could be explained if we assumed they knew. Things like the dinner with Kate, the money, the party, school email etc. why her car passed emissions just a few months prior to the accident but then suddenly is barely drivable with exhaust issues??? Maybe everything was just to cover and still is for her safety and well being. Maybe that's why everyone involved say/said just enough and then no more. I know it sounds crazy but so do a lot of theories in this case.
I think separating fact from fiction would be an important thing to do. There is much posted about the NM case that is assumed fact, but not substantiated.
I don't think that sounds all that crazy. I think you might be on to something. Maura was definitely trying to get away from something and it's not out of the realm of possibility to think her family and/or friends helped her. I lean towards Renner's theory with the tandem driver as well and this fits nicely with that.
Maybe just "was murdered". As I've said a million times, it foul play does not equal murdered by a serial killer.
Exactly. I've never understood why "serial killer" has been thrown around so much. I believe she was murdered, but a serial killer is very unlikely.
Mont Saint Hilaire.
James, any possibility of getting boots on the ground there? Or doing a billboard or some ads or posters?
Maybe she was killed accidentally. Like got a ride from a stranger, and along the way she got a bad vibe, tried to get out of the car while it was still moving, hit her head and died. And the driver disposed of her body so he/she wouldn't be charged with murder. That person has likely never committed a serious crime either before or since.
I am going for managed to flee the scene but died later due to an accident / foul play (i.e. wandering onto a dirtbag's property; picked up by someone and killed but this person is not a serial killer; or succumbed to the elements. I don't think she is alive.
Wandering onto someone's property and getting shot? That sounds quite likely. I hadn't thought of that. I wish people would have a stronger bias towards mundane scenarios like this and talk a little less about theories that sound like a scene in a Jason Bourne movie.